This is a prime example of what I sure the men and other ladies from certain blogs fantasize about. This link was shared on a facebook group I am part of. Makes my stomach churn. And to think this wife, amend her mistake and still supposedly had to get spanked. Barforama!
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Jumpers to Jeans 
Oh…oh my…
The comments just drive it home. 😦
Nothing short of wife abuse.
And her submitting to it and acting like it is normal and healthy is just as sick.
Now my question.
Who gets to spank Parker when he makes honest mistakes?
And don’t tell me he doesn’t. His mommy or daddy? Brinlee? Parkers boss?
Also, what the heck is the point of forgiveness in that situation. She already took far and above a ‘reasonable’ punishment. After he’s beat her over 30 times and with a belt, he’s the one that needs to be asking for forgiveness. freaking sadist.
This is just sick and wrong… I never knew anything like this even existed! I am shocked!
I heard of this a few years ago when I was on cafemom. They have a group there for ladies that do Domestic Discipline. But this post made my stomach turn. There are more posts such as this one, and she talks about how she is bruised and sore and can’t barely move.
I left this comment there…
“Parker isn’t much of a man. He’s no man at all, really, and if I knew enough of the details, I’d contact the authorities about ole Parker boy, and he’d probably be in jail. If someones in a position to do something about this, I’d suggest saving a screenshot of this page, or forwarding this page to the local authorities.”
Hillary, Lewis and Mara,
What is scary is what will this man do to his own children once he has them? Children are lot more “naughty” than an adult. What will he do them when they spill drinks with red dye on the carpet? What will he do when they color on the walls? What will he do when they get into his tools and “fix” something. (actually destroy it)
Wow, what’s scarier even, is that her husband has an M.D. He should know waaay better than to do that!
And now he is studying to be a Family Law Lawyer!
that is so sick. i posted a very clear comment there. 😦 someone should call the police…
OM*
Is that serious? He makes her take her clothes off, stand in a corner, and then spanks her? Then, she cries because it is “so hard on him” and he is almost/about to cry?!?!
WT*
From “Christians” I would expect a little more mature, respectful, and well said response. Somehow, I guess hurting people along the way to “proving your points” has never crossed your mind. Sad. I really don’t have any words.
There’s a right way, and a wrong way, to say things.
Brinlee
Brinlee I am sorry if I came across as harsh to you. Honestly I am saying that, because I know for one what it is like to believe in something so strongly and having someone who “knows better” tell me what for about it. I have to admit, though that it is just very shocking to me that you are more hurt at people pointing what they believe is the truth because they care about your well being, than it hurts for you to be spanked for trivial silly reasons by your husband. Your blog is a public forum. Your husband even said he wished to make it public.
You are going to bring about criticism if you put it on the internet. There are very real physical implications for being spanked as hard and as long as your husband does. And not trying to be harsh, but pointed, your husband should know better being an M.D. that he is. If I spanked my child like he does I’d have them taken away from me.
You have only been married for a little over a year or two? Not sure. Take it from a girl that tried to correct her naughtiness through other means than spanking, (religion) and the perfectionist lifestyle caught up to me. I celebrated nine years. You are still in the honeymoon stage of your marriage. It is very easy to think that DD is bettering your marriage…but is it really?
Again forgive me if I came across as harsh, but the method your husband uses, although consensual is still wrong.
Jumpers2Jeans,
I’m well aware of the criticism that blogs can bring (whether they’re about what ours is, or not). It seriously feels like just about ANY topic can become controversial (especially online) now days. My point was just that I felt if you, and many others, were going to bring negative attention to it that it at least should be done respectfully and not hurtful.
I feel like, unless any of you have personally experienced and endured what I have, you have a LOT of guts to come onto my blog, or anyone elses, and act like you know what it’s all about, and make false accusations. It doesn’t even have to be about domestic discipline..it could be about anything. For instance, when you said my husband was studying to be a family law attorney. He isn’t, and no where on our blog does he say that. I’m in law school to be one, but my husband isn’t. Just wanted to clarify.
I guess what I’m trying to say is I’ve never, nor has my husband, said our marriage is perfect. But, until you’ve walked in my shoes, please don’t come onto my blog acting like you know what it’s all about. If you’ve never had this in your marriage..you have no idea. It’s not easy. And some days I just want to break down and cry. But I love my husband, whether he wants this in our marriage or not.
We haven’t been married that long, but we’ve been together since high school. We’ve been dating over 10 years..just wanted to wait until my husband was done w/med school to get married.
I appreciate you being respectful in your last post to me, by the way. Hope you feel I’ve been the same to you.
Brinlee
Brinlee, I would encourage you to read my blog some and see where I am coming from. You can find the main links that explain, by going to the “New? Start Here” page.
I willingly went down a path that seemed good and right. For a while it “worked”. But in the end…well, you will see if you read that part. 🙂
So no, while I have experienced DD to the extent you describe on your blog, I took a path that put bondage on my mind, and it took me almost going insane to wake me up from it.
I am sorry that I misread your statement that it was you in law school. I promise it was only a misreading. I should of been more careful in my reading of your post, but at that point I had read almost all of your blog, was shocked to see your husband was an M.D., (because there are medical reasons that this practice isn’t healthy) and then saw “now in Law School” So I misread it, I am sorry.
If it helps, you any I had a friend that practiced this for a while. She grew up in an emotionally abusive home. She felt like a dirty rotten sinner all the time. She was a perfectionist, and only wanted to be a good wife. She thought that DD would help her attitudes.
Her husband did it for her sake, although he wasn’t very pleased with it. They did it a couple of months and he finally put his foot down and stopped it, because it was so demeaning to her….and it never improved her attitude.
As far as being together for 10 years, and married 2 years. How long were you together before the DD started? The reason I ask, it seems that you got along just fine without the need of it before marriage. Then you use it in marriage?
I still have hard time believing that it is really improving your marriage. I say this out of concerned warning for you. Over time, I do believe it will wear on you emotionally.
Brinlee, I would just like to ask you one thing. Are you allowing this because you’ve become convinced it’s God’s will? And if it is God’s will, how does it tie in to the Great Commandment, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? Would your husband want this done to him?
If you were to become convinced it was not God’s will, would you feel better to let it go? Would you be happier?
I do not appreciate how several people came on to Brinlees blog with such hate filled judgement over a consenting lifestyle that makes them (and my husband and I) happy. The judgmental accusations were really hurtful, not only to Brinlee, but to those of us who love and consent to this relationship dynamic.
My husband is a strong, brave, and amazing man. He would NEVER abuse a child nor would he ever abuse me. Everything he does is done out of love and calm, cool demeanor. There is a major difference between an adult and a child and he is intelligent enough to know the difference. To imply that Parker would hurt a child simply because he meets the needs of his consenting and adult wife is asinine and rather insulting.
Those in the domestic discipline community support each other and love each other. We have some of the strongest marriages around. Our marriages are based on trust, understanding and communication. One partner leads and the other follows. We are not doormats, but we have opinions and voices. The key here is that we are consenting adults. We do not feel scared, bitter and afraid for our lives after a spanking. Women who are abused are scared for their lives. Unlike us, we feel loved, forgiven and close to our husbands after being disciplined (and during all times, not just after discipline) we are not afraid of them, we do not fear that they will hurt us. A spanking is hardly the same thing as being punched in the face.
Hate is not something that is going to advance our society. The hatred towards gays for instance, where they felt that hiding their lifestyle was the only possible way to go because of the judgement and hate of those who didnt understand.
I stated my opinion, and I am not ashamed of my opinion. I do believe I was too harsh in my tone at first. And for that I am sorry. I did apologize to Brinlee for that, and sincerely. But my opinion is still the same.
And it wasn’t hatred towards Brinlee or her husband. It is just very disgusting to hear such morbid detail, and my disgust for that practice came out through my writing.
I have heard of DD, and I honestly thought it was just the husband giving her a few wacks on the hiney. What I read, well, the bruising, the soreness that lasts more than what it should, the emotional manipulation, the rules, the lectures, the sending her to bed for being bad….sorry, but I still believe that is wrong.
Hatred? That is a harsh word, Jess.
Nothing here has been hate-mongering. We have just come out of being abused in the past, and seeing people willingly undergo abuse is at the same time incomprehensible and utterly shocking.
Jess…To suggest that you “need” this is where it gets itchy for the rest of us. I hope you can see that it isn’t emotionally healthy for an adult to “need” spankings and beltings.
Elsewhere you spoke of your husband being your head, so I can only assume that you practice this in a religious sense? I don’t think there’s any way the scriptures can be twisted to support your lifestyle, and I’m very sorry if they’re being used in any way to constrain you.
Kristen,
It ties into Ephesians 5:22-24 in our opinion, but everyone interprets things differently.
To answer your second question, I don’t know what would make me happy at this point.
Brinlee
Brinlee,
I, too, once protected an abuser…and I did it with gusto just like you.
Your husband most likely believes he is doing right…but he is an abuser. I think most abusers start out believing that they are acting for the other person’s good.
What your husband is putting you through sounds a lot like hazing to me: endure pain to be part of my group.
Nobody here is being judgemental of you- rather they sound sick with worry about your well-being.
Have you ever heard of Stockholm syndrome? You have it, my dear, and in spades.
Brinlee, I am concerned that though you say you are a consenting adult, you have described “discipline” sessions where you plainly were having a huge amount of trouble continuing to take the punishment (especially the switching) and yet you did not appear to have the power to say, “Stop, I’ve had enough.” This is very worrisome.
Your husband goes from 30+ spanks with his hand, to a belt, to a paddle. If he just used his hand, he would at least have a way of knowing when you’d probably had enough– because his hand also can feel the pain of repeated blows. But apparently when his hand can’t take any more, he switches methods and keeps right on. This is worrisome, because he could do you serious harm and never know it.
Finally, I find myself wondering if it is your idea to put every intimate detail out on the web for strangers to see. Did he command you to do this? Also making you cut your own switch. These look like shaming tactics, and it seems as if any boundaries you may ever have had, disappeared long ago. Again, this concerns me deeply.
I’m just wondering– do you feel the freedom to tell him if you believe he’s taking all this way too far? In the kind of relationship you describe, power can be corrupting. Ask yourself if you’d be afraid to tell him, “This is too much; please tone it down.” If you wouldn’t be afraid, that would make me feel better. If you would be afraid, then it might be time to do some rethinking, or to talk to someone.
Are you so sure that Jess and Parker aren’t into S and M sort of porn stuff.
If they’re into the kinky stuff, I would actually have more respect for them than if they are as the majority of responders here believe, a weak doormat woman and an ogre of a man that, based upon his education, should know better.
And, (the MD husband) would be *obligated* to *report* as *abuse* if one of his patients had been beaten with a belt with 30 lashes.
Debra, at the risk of sounding “judgmental” to some…. but just museing about my thoughts. Brinlee has made it clear this is not kinky nor is it fun for her. However, I do wonder if her husband is into the other stuff that you claim they might be in. That he uses the “excuse” of “discipline” as a means to fulfill his fantasies.
Again, I know that sounds extremely “judgmental” and I don’t know this couple. But given the fact that it is known in the world as a fetish, and Brinlee doesn’t believe that is the use of DD in their marriage, it does highly make me wonder.
And if it is just a “thing” they do in their marriage, why use the Bible as a support? That I don’t get. I found a really good blog post on this:
http://thixiasviews.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/christian-domestic-discipline-is-biblically-wrong/
This is the first I’ve heard of wives being spanked by their husbands. The first thought that came to me when I read the description of this wife’s “spanking” (to be honest, it was much more than just a spanking) was the abuse my husband encountered at his boarding school. The children’s relatively minor offenses resulted in harsh, prolonged beatings with belts, paddles, etc. Even unintentional offenses (as in this wife’s case: yelling at her hubby’s co-worker when she thought she was yelling at a stalker) brought the children multiple beatings. There was no such thing as an ‘honest mistake’. As with abused wives, these children were presumed guilty until proven innocent, and they lived in constant anticipation of their next punishment. This taught them that relationships with their ‘authorities’, including God, were based in punishment. Love and grace were talked about, but rarely, if ever, modeled.
The second thought that came to me was Sadism, “pleasure in the infliction of pain or humiliation upon another person.” Years ago I read a lot about sexual addiction, and I learned that hitting/spanking/beating women is one way that some men use to gratify their sexual desires. For many of these men, their sexual desires aren’t satisfied unless violence is part of the scenario. I have no doubt that sexual stimulation is one part of the picture for the average man who beats his wife/gf, whether it’s discussed between them or not. This is especially true when this so-called punishment is disproportionate to the so-called sin (i.e. a 3-stage beating for making an honest mistake), and involves nudity (i.e. forcing her to remove clothing and panties for the beating).
This kind of thing cripples a woman’s ability to know God’s true love, grace, forgiveness, freedom and joy, and the kind of marriage that God intended men and women to have. Abuse makes it harder for her to love herself just as she is (and we ARE meant to love ourselves, as Jesus said, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”) Too often, an abused woman second-guesses herself, sometimes even despising herself, all the while causing her to revere her husband so highly that she convinces herself his actions and decisions are always justified.
As many of you know, realizing all of this can take a LOT of time, sometimes years. And during this time, justifying the abuse is the only way a woman survives. Admitting that the abuse is really abuse, and then healing from the abuse as this realization grows, is painful, and sometimes it’s easier to just live the lie than tell herself the truth. I have nothing but sympathy for every woman caught in this situation.
A website called Heart 2 Heart (http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women) says:
“Rather than simply pondering the rather nebulous question of ‘Am I or am I not in an abusive relationship?’ It is often helpful to look at some specific questions that can bring abuse to light more subtly by getting past the minimizing, rationalizing and justifying.”
“How many of these questions do you answer YES:
– Has your partner ever hit, slapped, choked or pushed you?
– Do you ever feel like you deserve to be punished?
– Have you been forced by your partner to do something you didn’t want to do?
– Do you feel emotionally numb?
– Do you feel like your partner never really listens to you or understands you?
– Do you feel like you have to say that you’re doing okay even when you really aren’t?
– Have you ever pulled back from a relationship with a friend or family member because they voiced concern about how your partner treats you?
– Have you ever had sex shortly after a violent episode?
“Are you certain that you’re not being abused because:
– You’ve never been hit with a closed fist?
– You’ve never had to go to the hospital?
– You’ve never had a broken bone?
– You’ve seen what “real” abuse is like, and it’s worse than this?
– You deserve what you get?
– Nobody ever treated you this well before?
– You’re not like “those” people that abuse happens to? You’re educated? Wealthy? Religious? Strong?
“Are you afraid to ask for help because you’re afraid that:
– People will say that you’re: Overly sensitive? Making it up? Trying to get attention? Lying? A woman hater? Or trying to get out of your responsibilities?
“Do you know, deep in your heart-of-hearts, that you’re abused but you don’t know what to do about it?
“If you found yourself answering “yes” to several questions on the above list, and even if you think there are good reasons for those “yes” answers, the truth is that you are being abused. ”
There is help for abused women. Focus on the Family (FotF) has a very good counselors that will gladly talk to you by phone for free. The toll-free # is: 1-800-232-6459
Other Focus on the Family pages:
– FotF “Abuse and Addiction” page: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/lifechallenges/abuse_and_addiction.aspx
– FotF counseling page: http://referrals-loc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/referrals_loc.cfg/php/loc/enduser/loc.php
Precious wives (and future wives): God has better plans for marriage than this. He has better plans for YOU than this. Scripture says that because we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father. And Jesus never beat anyone. He loves you. He is patient and will help you out of this when you’re ready. In the meantime, I’m praying for you.
The thing is that though I agree wholeheartedly that domestic discipline is not supported by the Bible, what Brinlee is describing goes way beyond domestic discipline. She is not just getting a spanking. She’s getting a spanking, and then a whipping with a belt, and then a paddling. Domestic discipline, from what I’ve heard about it, is supposed to end with a smarting rear end. Brinlee’s ends with days of soreness and deep muscle bruising, and great difficulty even sitting down. No matter how DD adherents read the Bible, I don’t see how anything could justify this.
Yes, you’re absolutely right. This is more that “discipline”. It clearly falls in the category of physical abuse.
I posted this at Lewis’s blog so I’m just going to copy/paste here.
*******
I spent some time “blog hopping” from the second link you provided, Lewis. It was eye-opening.
I’d like to throw out a few thoughts/observations that I processed after reading. Forgive me if I don’t mention where I found each idea, because I read a number of different blogs and don’t remember exactly who said what. I hope this doesn’t come across as harsh or rude to those who practice CDD, but instead as gentle observations.
While secular proponents of S&M/dd seem pretty straightforward about why they do what they do, the Christian sites I saw mostly insist that CDD (Christian domestic discipline) is not about sex, power, shame, or abuse.
However, in the contexts of their descriptions, this makes no sense.
If it’s not about sex, then why the heavy emphasis on spanking naked and requiring the wife to assume demeaning positions?
If it’s not about power, then why the need to strike (according to their own graphic descriptions) 50 or more hard, bruising blows, until the man feels that the wife demonstrates “submission”? Why did multiple blogs (again, some Christian) reveal the husband saying things like, “You WILL give me the respect I deserve!”? Many blogs I read described the man micromanaging (and punishing for) everything from what the woman eats for breakfast to whether or not she closes the door. Even 99.9% of complementarian Christian men I know would never dream of micromanaging their wives to this degree, much less punishing for it.
If it’s not about shame, then why does virtually every woman I read (both Christian and secular) describe that she only feels forgiven and absolved of her sin after a harsh punishment? Why do dd women commonly use terms like “embarrassed” “needed to pay” “deserved it” and describe themselves as having “low self-esteem”?
And if it’s not abusive, then again–why would it be necessary to administer 50+ heavy blows with multiple implements (from what I read, 4 or more implements are common during just one punishment) that leave a woman bruised and in great pain for an extended period of time? Defendants of DD scoff at the notion that it’s abusive because it’s “just a spanking” and can’t be compared to punching, kicking, or starving. I think a “spanking” such as those described is more accurately described as a beating, no matter how it’s administered.
The repeated denials of abuse by DD supporters reminds me of a personal incident during my days in the patriarchy movement Lewis writes about. A secular relative accused us children (teens at the time) of being brainwashed. We laughed hysterically that he could possibly think such a thing. We weren’t brainwashed, we insisted! Except…that…we were. From the outside, he could see what we could not.
Another story comes to mind. I heard an abusive pastor refute an accusation that he and his fellow church leaders were “brutal.” He laughed it off and said, “We aren’t brutal. The Nazis were brutal! How can you say that we’re brutal?” The inference was that because they weren’t genocidal dictators then their abuse wasn’t brutal. But just because they weren’t Nazis didn’t make their actions OK. By the same token, just because a man isn’t beating a woman senseless or punching her in the face doesn’t mean he isn’t abusing her.
Again, please hear my gentle tone. These are things I’d say to my daughter if I learned she was in a DD relationship. My heart goes out to women whose husbands administer DD.
For the record, DJ, I AM NOT of the Domestic Discipline camp.
That is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard of in the context of a Christian marriage. Seems to be a direct violation of Ephesians 5 to me.
I am glad to hear you are not Terry! D.D. isn’t right. But I do think that Markymark and Laura Grace would be very much for it. Especially Laura Grace’s “Wife Whisperer”. It is telling when she says this at the end of the article:
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That is a HUGE RED FLAG warning for me, that Markymarks crowd and Laura Grace wouldn’t oppose DD….and I think the next step in their extreme submission dogma would easily lead to Domestic Discipline.