The “Porn” Factor and it’s Relation to the Treatment of Women

Pin Up Girl Another interruption the previously scheduled programing.

Ok, so, lately, I have been sort of swept up into another area of interest. I never thought I would be so interested in the rights of women. I am not a feminist. (though people will no doubt dub me as one) I never was one. I wasn’t raised to be one.

The reason I linked to “Misandry” in the above paragraph is because that is what Marky Marks Blog says all feminists are…men haters, and he claims all women are feminists.

My brother’s marriage gave me a taste of what full fledge feminism can do to a man. And it isn’t pretty or nice.  There are indeed women who hate men, and disrespect them as a human being, and treat them with contempt. But if I were such a woman, I would not be married, nor would I be encouraging my son to embrace his manhood without any shame.

God made men to be men….it is in their bodies biologically to be men. For a women or movement to suppress that as “bad” is wrong. But it is just as wrong for a man to suppress a woman for being a woman….to cut her down and disrespect them as a human being and treat them with contempt…just for being born a woman.

Why is there a war on sexes between “Christians” just boggles my mind to no end. I am more naive than I originally thought. I was blissfully ignorant that “Christian” men hate women with such passion until I stumbled on Marky Mark’s blog through Laura Grace’s Blog “Full of Grace, Seasoned with Salt.”

Laura Grace wrote a blog post called “The Wife Whisperer” in which Marky Mark “graciously” posted her piece, that was indeed, written with  “full of grace, and seasoned with salt.” (Insert Sarc mark here)

So what does Porn got to do with all of this?

Marky Mark insists that men in the general population are mostly innocent. He cites statistics of how evil women are because of their higher rate of STD’s. He claims that almost 100% of women are evil feminists.

One of his commenters, said,

“…but when I hear someone claim to be anti-feminist, I always notice her to be the same narcissistic “special snowflake” I meet in the feminist crowd.”

So, I guess, I am a special snowflake… and if that makes me a feminist… I guess I am a feminist then. And I guess I am narcissistic too. But I digress, I was diagnosed  non-narcisstic. (By a male of all people! Or wait….should I say “thing” since I am a feminist?)

These men asked me what I do personally to combat feminism. Apparently they want me to stand out on street corners and protest. They also asked how many men I slept with until I got married. (zilch)

So if the general population of males are innocent, and women are 99.9% evil, what about porn?

So, I asked Marky Mark, what has he done personally to combat porngraphy…to stop the funding and production of it. I asked him if he uses it to his advantage, as he claimed that I used the benefits of a feminist society to my advantage, even though I am not a feminist.

Remember, Marky Mark, is not married, but neither is he gay. I wonder what he does with all his pent up feelings?

And Marky, also doesn’t want to get married, as he claims he hasn’t found a woman who is worthy of his love. (Good grief…such a high opinion of himself)

I also pointed out that men are more likely to engage in pornography than women, and that men are more likely to molest little children than women.  And is it any wonder that a lot of male clergy are caught harming little children? Men aren’t the mostly innocent creatures he would like to think they are.

And what did Marky Mark say to that? Well, he wanted to know “what in the blazes” does that have to do with the war on gender? Can we say “GULITY”!?

So I found a piece on the Internet about what pornography does to men in their relation towards women:

Two interesting quotes stood out to me:

What it [pornography] sells is lies about women and their response to sex. Pornography frequently portrays women as mindless, childlike and submissive. We are “pets” or “playmates.” Other forms of pornography depict women who enjoy being raped, spanked, tied up or mutilated.

No wonder Marky Mark cannot find a woman that he feels is worthy enough to love. What real woman would want to be treated as a dog, like “Laura Grace” espouses for men train their wives like? What real woman wants to be considered like a child, and mindless? These men often joke that women want to be “spanked“, they just don’t know it.

Ummm…could it be that pornography is warping these men’s minds? I think so.

Another quote that stood out in the above piece:

Many young males state that their first sexual experience was masturbating to pornography. Think of what this pornography then says to these men — that women like to be treated like objects, treated with contempt, and enjoy eroticized violence. Women in pornography never say “no,” or if they do, they don’t really mean it. Women in porn are really men’s property — always available and ready. pornography, therefore, reinforces inequity in relationships. It is difficult to believe that men can use pornography and at the same time truly respect the women in their lives.

When I asked the question about pornography, “Marky” admitted to looking at it. He did not state how often. But given the above paragraphs, and the way he writes about women on his blog, I would say often enough to become dissatisfied with real live in the flesh human women.

Often enough to have unrealistic expectations of women. To encourage men to train their wives like dogs, to call them whores, to speaking foul langauge to a woman for asking to cut in line.

So what in the blazes does this have to do with the gender war? Let me ask this.  With the majority of porn being viewed by the male population, and with porn portraying women  as “things” that don’t exist in real life, and most men wanting that out of women…Is it any wonder why the majority of women would be tempted to think men are pigs?

A real add from the 1930's to 1940's
I will probably be writing more on this subject in future posts.

PS. I really don’t think all men are pigs. I know some really good ones (men that is ;-) ). Marky and Laura Grace represent their positions badly, and if everyone were like them, I too would become a full fledge man hater.

P.s.s  I also know that many women who claim the title of “feminist” are not man haters. I was just using the term as Marky Mark and Laura Grace use the term. “Feminist” aka “women who put down men, shame them, and treat them like dirt”  I was not raised to not be that way towards men. And I don’t view men that way at all. Never in my life did I believe women are in a general sense better than men. And I never in my life viewed men as better than women in a general sense.

Just had to clear that up! ;-)

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104 Responses to The “Porn” Factor and it’s Relation to the Treatment of Women

  1. Darcy says:

    OMG that blog is horrendous!! If I were you, I’d steer clear. Those people aren’t worth it. (And I pretty much never say that.) Seriously, that man knows nothing about Jesus. Kudos to you for trying but I don’t think I could do it. :P

    • I know Darcy…that guy and Laura Grace are nutso. I enjoy the debate though, because it exercises my mind and lets me think. :D Thank you for stopping by my blog. I am honored that you did. :)

  2. naomiclark says:

    Hi! First time commenter here. I think I came across your blog via Elizabeth Esther or Quivering Daughters or something similar. Love, love your blog title! I grew up Amish Mennonite and homeschooled, so I can certainly identify with it.

    First, let me say that I think you have identified a dynamic link between patriarchy and porn. Right on! But as a “professional” (in other words: academic) feminist, I have to comment on your characterization of feminists as inherently hating men. Granted, I’m sure there are plenty of hate-filled women who call themselves feminists, and since there’s no universal definition of “feminist,” I can’t deny them that identity. However, for the last nine years or so I have made many feminist friends, worked with them, studied under them, and read their books. I have yet to come across any feminist that is hateful to men because they are men. Not saying they don’t exist, just that I’ve spent a lot of time with a lot of them and haven’t come across one yet (even the lesbians I’ve known).

    It is true that many second-wave feminists took a very radical approach to gender issues; however, more recent third-wave feminists tend to take a more nuanced approach, also taking into consideration compounding factors such as race, class, and (dis)ability. One of the core issues for most feminists is simply the desire that women not be mistreated/disadvantaged/marginalized simply because they are women.

    Unfortunately, “feminism” has become a straw-man argument for the patriocentric crowd as this Marky guy demonstrates. The way they use the word doesn’t actually reflect the reality of most feminists, but it effectively shuts down dissent–one of patriocentrists’ primary goals, don’t you think?

    • Thank you Naomiclark for commenting. :)

      I think you misunderstood my use of the word feminist. I was using the term “feminist” the way that Marky mark would. In essence I am not a “feminist” because I don’t hate men. I wasn’t raised to hate men either.

      My brother married a radical feminist, in which, I think was partly due to her being misused by men.

      I do believe women and men are created equal, but they are equally different….if that makes sense? I believe they should be equally respected. I don’t believe women should be mistreated/disadvantage/marginalized either. So if that makes me a “feminist” I guess I am one. ;-)

  3. Lewis says:

    If I were a nonbeliever, and MarkyMark and Laura Grace were the only representation of Christ I saw, I’d choose atheism. Seriously. Their Christianity looks an awful lot like outright fascism.

  4. Jane says:

    I knew there was a reason I was clicking on this analysis today, it was for you…anti-porn fighter here [and yes Radical Feminist] who will say, to deconstruct the porn-rape culture you cannot separate the basis for that culture/porn, religion’s views and sanctioning of misogyny in religion. Fact. The virgin whore dichotomy was started in religious views on women. As well as the sanctioning of rape of the ‘whore’, that woman that was enemy, devil’s seed, subhuman, nonhuman, therefore giving license and holy sanction to men to rape, sexually torture and enslave the ‘whore’ woman. It is the verbatim of porn, today it’s the imagery of such verbatim. Patriarchy and especially religious patriarchy ARE porn. And I can say this as a believer yes, in Jesus Christ–for porn and patriarchy are the first fruits of the ‘sin’ after the fall, yes, they realized they were ‘naked’ and ‘ashamed’ and the enmity between male and female began, the Separation.

    The analysis I was reading today, is from Laurelin in the Rain…was browsing/some of her older essays and knew I’d be posting it but wasn’t sure where, I stumbled onto here by accident…

    excerpt: from Feminist vs Fundies [on porn]

    Welcome to the post I promised about the difference between feminist and religious fundamentalist arguments against pornstitution!

    At the Dworkin conference, a speaker from Feminists Against Censorship suggested that radical feminist arguments against pornography ‘play into the hands’ of religious fundamentalists. The suggestion seems to be that feminists should not attack pornography because religious nutcases attack pornography. We should ignore the harm pornography does to women because it is trivial compared to looking like you agree with the right. Hmmm.

    What exactly is meant by ‘playing into the hands’ of religious fundamentalists? Are they all going to suddenly jump up and down in glee yelling ‘Yay! Feminists who oppose our oppression of women and promote women’s independence from male authority and religious domination hate pornography too! Well gosh, they must be on our side really. Take that, secular leftists!’? Are we suddenly going to be overtaken by the desire to submit to restrictive and misogynistic doctrine of fundamentalists? I rather doubt it, given that feminists vehemenously oppose what religious fundamentalists stand for: patriarchy.

    read the rest at: http://laurelin.wordpress.com/2006/04/25/feminists-v-fundies/

    Jane

    • Thank you Jane for your thoughts. I have seen your comments on Quivering Daughters, and you give such a good perspective that others may not even see. I will look at that link when the kids go to bed. I appreciate you visiting!

  5. Debra Baker says:

    Women are more prone to become infected with an STD because they expose a larger area of mucous membrane surface than men when engaged in sex.

    T0 associate this with being evil is so illogical that the mind simply boggles.

    • Debra, that is exactly what my husband said. And not only that, but women are more likely to be found with STD’s because they go to the doctor for check ups down there more than women.

  6. MarkyMark says:

    What I find strange is how you let women off the hook for reading “women’s porn”, aka romance novels. Just like porn gives men unrealistic expectations of women, romance novels give women unrealistic expectations of men. All the women out there want Mr. Big or Rhett Butler, but they cannot all have one of their own. It’s interesting that you give women a pass on this…

    • Yes, women reading romance novels *can* make woman’s expectations of men unrealistic. I am not going to make excuses for woman reading trashy romance novels. That being said, you should not use romance novels read by women to justify your own porn addiction.

      Ps. Who is Mr. Big?

      • MarkyMark says:

        One, you don’t know me well enough to make a blanket statement about any addiction of any kind. Two, Mr. Big was Carrie Bradshaw’s love interest on “Sex and the City”. He was a rich, successful, handsome man-your quintessential romance novel leading man, your quintessential alpha male to whom all women are attracted. Women ALWAYS go for the alpha male.

      • You’re right. I don’t know you well enough to know the extent of the involvement of your porn. However, I go by what you write. You despise women, you have an unrealistic expectation of how women should act and behave, you get upset when the porn question is put to you, and you don’t face your own responsibility, and turn around and blame women….again….. for your *own* problem. All signs point to guilty.

        You and your men grilled me on your blog asking personal questions. How many romance novels did I read before I got married? (zero) How many men did I sleep with. (zero) What did I do against the feminist movement (I stay home with my children and I don’t think all men are like you)

        Now you are on my blog bud.

        How many times did and do you access porn? What have you done to stop the production of it? Don’t wish to answer? Fine.
        ..But it just further proves my point. You have something to hide be ashamed of, and you don’t want to admit it because you have to prove me wrong.

        The reason I asked about Mr. Big is stated in your answer. It is obvious you watch Sex and the City. I do not….which is obvious in my asking the question of who Mr. Big is. Heck, you even know who Carrie Bradshaw is. Do you even know who the actress is that plays her character?

        Your bringing fictional characters into the portrayal of how women and men behave in reality is another big clue to your addiction. You think women should be like porn stars, and you think ALL women think of men the way this Carrie Bradshaw does.

        As far as alpha male. I really don’t get why you and the guys on your blog has such a fascination to comparing the human race to dogs. Cause in dog life, the alpha male has more than one female….and the male humps them all.

        In *real life* the true alpha males, are men like Warren Jeffs; not the romantic fantasy of sex and the city.

      • MarkyMark says:

        Ma’am,

        I watched SATC once or twice just to see what all the fuss was about. I found it disgusting, so I never watched again. That begs the question of why I watched, which will allow me to destroy a statement you just made…

        You asked me who Mr. Big was. How could one who isn’t living in a cave not know that?! One doesn’t have to watch SATC to know of Mr. Big; all one has to do is live in this culture to know the answer to your question.

        So you don’t watch SATC-good. Do you watch the news at all, even for major events like 9/11? Do you read the newspapers at all? Do you watch any TV at all, even if it’s just documentaries or sports (in my case racing)? Do you listen to the radio, even if it’s only for traffic & weather? If you answered ‘yes’ to ANY of the above questions, then guess what?! You will have heard of SATC, and you WILL know who Mr. Big is!

        When I finally checked out SATC out of curiosity, it had been on for years already; I think it was season 3 or 4; at any rate, it had been on a long time. During that time, I’d seen and heard stories about that wretched show everywhere; I couldn’t get away from it! One didn’t have to watch the show to know who Mr. Big was; all one had to do was live in modern day America, because talk about SATC was everywhere.

        Please keep in mind that I don’t follow gossip; I’m not a celebrity watcher; I don’t do any of that pop culture stuff. Even though I make a conscious effort to avoid pop culture things, I couldn’t get away from SATC. How was it YOU managed to do so?

        MarkyMark

      • You still didn’t answer my question about your use of of porn. Until you answer that, I won’t answer your question about SATC

      • Mara says:

        I kept away from SATC too.
        I’ll not watch any show with the word “Sex” in the title.
        In fact, I’m so far removed from it, I had to check to see if the name was Sex AND the City or Sex IN the City. Because I honestly didn’t know and still don’t give a flying flip.

        How can a young man keep his way pure?
        By keeping it according to Thy word. Psalm 119:9

        Even though this verse is addressed to you and other young men, I know I’m not exempt and do what I can to keep my way pure.

        I feel very bad for your low opinion of all women and how you give most men a pass. You have a false balance in your life. (Proverbs 11:1)

        Was your mother abusive?
        Did she treat your father bad?
        Why so much hatred?

        It’s not because 99.9% of all women are bad. It’s because of something else. And you had best figure it out or you will continue to go through life full of hatred and bitterness and it will eat you up on the inside until there is nothing left but the shell of a bitter old man that school aged kids like to torment with halloween pranks.

        The time will come when you won’t be able to defend yourself so well and you will need the love and care of others.
        Keep that in mind while you continue to punish all women for the sins of one or two women who hurt you terribly.

        Some women are extremely loving and caring. Wish you could see them. But you won’t as long as you have your hate glasses on.

      • Darcy says:

        *raises hand*

        I’ve never heard of Mr. Big. And I didn’t know the lady’s name on Sex in the City. And I’m very much a part of this culture. I just choose to ignore certain things. A program called Sex in the City fits my description of “waste of time”.

      • Rae says:

        I agree with the other commenters that this does not appear to be a good use of time unless you enjoy it, so I won’t comment on the “arguments” offered other than to say that comparing romance to porn is laughable. But I wanted to chime in and say that I am yet another person who didn’t know who Mr. Big was! Though I do know that SJP played Carrie Bradshaw. ;-)

      • Well, the only thing I saw SJP in was “The Navigator” ROTFL!

      • MarkyMark says:

        Here’s my answer to your question about porn: get bent!

      • What a lovely reply to someone who didn’t even know what that expression meant, and had to google it. :P
        Marky, Get a real life. Grow up, and stop pretending to be a Christian. You only use the Bible to support what you want to support and ditch the rest.
        It is obvious to me you have an addiction to porn….otherwise you would be proud to say you didn’t.

        I would be happy to answer your questions about SATC, but I won’t because you will just have to believe me. I didn’t know who Mr. Big was. My husband didn’t even know who Mr. Big was and he works in the entertainment pop culture industry. Like one commenter said,

        They chose to ignore it. My husband chose to ignore it. I chose to ignore it. I only explore what I find interesting…apparently you explore what you find interesting as well. Perversions of normal life, and healthy relationships and Sex.

      • MarkyMark says:

        DJ,

        You know what I have to say? GIVE ME A BREAK! Your husband works in the entertainment business, and you mean to tell me he never knew about SATC?! Come on! If you expect me to believe that one, I have a bridge for sale that I’d LOVE to talk to you about-good price, good price…

        And don’t play this little, innocent, Christian gal act, either. You’re technically savvy enough to be online; you’re technically savvy enough to run a blog. You mean to tell me that you never, ever, ever saw a headline in passing about SATC? You mean to tell me that you never, ever, ever saw a headline about the show or its characters in passing? Come on, Lady, I get that spam BS all the time! I hear and read about stuff I have no interest in all the time, thanks to all the little ways website owners have of disseminating their message. Come on!

        You’ve really insulted my intelligence with your comment, Darlin’. You expect me to believe that your husband ignored SATC while working in the entertainment business?! That’d be like expecting an electrician to ignore electricity-can’t be done! Lady, if you’re going to tell lies, at least try to be CREATIVE about it. I’m out of here…

    • Young Mom says:

      I going to come out and say that I watch Sex and the City and I find it hilarious. Not a model for how I want to live my life, but definetly an enjoyable show. And I’m not interested in a “Mr. Big” or “Rhett Butler”, I prefer my snuggly, dishwashing, talk-my-ear-off, leaves-his-clothes-on-the-floor, will eat anything, and play with his kids, man I’m married to.

  7. Jenny says:

    Thanks for this much-needed post. The “battle of the sexes” baffles me too. The need for men to respect women despite their differences is what 1 Peter 3:7-8 is all about. And you hit the nail on the head by bringing up pornography. I never thought about it this way, but the patriarchal subcultural has an obsession with that topic. Maybe they really do have a good reason to believe it runs ramped in their ranks. And perhaps, to cover up the fact that it’s directly related to their disrespect for women, they insist that it’s the fault of immodest women and an overwhelming struggle for all men.

  8. Mara says:

    Very good point, bringing up the “Alpha Male” obsession. Also glanced at the dog whisperer post. Unbelievable.

    God only compares undesirable people to dogs. And dogs ARE very much into dominance and subjegation. What does that make people who are overly concerned with dominance and subjegation?

    Not lambs.

    That’s why I thought it funny that a feminist wrote a book called “Women Who Run With Wolves” and wanted women to embrace their ‘alpha female’.

    Again.

    Unbelievable.

    This world’s gone crazy.

  9. Rachel says:

    Wow. Just wow.

    I have so many thoughts right now that I can’t even begin to write coherently. Not to mention I’m… shocked.

    Thanks for blogging about this. Porn just reinforces the inability of many man to commit and to have a real, deep and revealing relationship. It reinforces dominance and the idea that men should be able to get whatever they want without having to give of themselves.

    And, speaking in generalities here it must be noted that not all men fit that type and not all women fit the “romance novel porn” type. I know quite a few who enjoy plain ol’ porn.

    I’m very interested to see what comes next on your blog! You’re awesome. :)

  10. So ladies, this is interesting. Marky reviewed a book for some guy about restoring manhood to men.

    The author of this book seems pretty even headed, and normal. He too is being attacked by marky’s crowd.
    http://markymarksthoughts.blogspot.com/2010/08/neat-book.html

  11. Mara says:

    Starting over again down here because I had to look up what “get bent” meant too.
    Markymark, you need your mouth washed out with soap.
    What kind of perverted rush do you get coming to a woman’s place and talking that way?
    Are you getting back at your abusive mother? Stepmother? an ex-girlfriend who screwed you over?

    How do you think verbally abusing good (yes, I said good) and innocent women helps your cause or your position in any respect? What do you get except for a cheap, fleeting, and extremely dirty (dare I say pornographic) thrill?

    All it does is make you the villian in this story and in the eyes of God.

    And accusing our blog host of lies is detestable.
    Who do you think you are, the Spanish Inquisition incarnate?

    Grow up and grow a real pair.
    Throw away those fake ones you are wearing that make you think abusing women somehow makes you a man.
    They don’t.
    You aren’t.

    You’re a child in a man’s body.

    • MarkyMark says:

      Mara,

      I see nothing addressing any SUBSTANTIVE point I raised, but I do see lots of shaming language. Oh, I need to grow a pair? I’m a child in a man’s body? Ooooh, did you think of those all by yourself?! When you have an original thought, or even a reasonable facsimile thereof, come back and talk to me, all right?

      MarkyMark

      • Mara says:

        Markymark, I worked in a residential treatment facility and dealt with juvenile idiots like you daily.
        I nailed you.
        And you know it.
        Deflecting it doesn’t make it not true.

        None of what I said was original because you are just the same-o-same-o self-defensive punk who thinks he has the right to ask unlimited questions, judge, pry, dig into the private lives of others and accuse them of lying when they don’t give you the answers you want.

        Yet no one can ask you anything without you answering with obscenity.

        Seen it before, many times. It speaks loud and clear where you come from.

        The truth is, you get some kind of obscene high picking on women.

        This has it’s basis…

        Wait for it…

        in porn.

        If you don’t look at porn, then you don’t.

        Fine. Say so.

        Saying an obscenity doesn’t prove you don’t but rather points that you, more likely, do.
        You used a term referring to an act of porn to answer.
        Duh. No-brainer.
        Don’t need to use anything original to deal with the obvious you are dishing out here.

    • Mayenife says:

      How does this kind of verbally abusive ad-hominem language make you any better? Just saying.

      Don’t claim to take the high ground while jumping in the mud.

  12. Why are you asking a strange man, you don’t know, such personal questions? A lady, for one, does not ask such things nor does she make random, baseless, accusations to drag down a man’s name. His business is HIS business.

    • Laura Grace, what kind of lady are you to condone the viewing of porngraphy? For one, I wasn’t the first to ask “marky” such personal questions. I got pretty grilled on his blog…and I answered the questions. Questions like, How many men did I sleep with….and how many romance novels did I read. So I asked Marky what he did to stop the production of porn. Every time a man takes a peek it funds the industry. He gripes about feminism, yet he promotes hatred for men, because every wife that has husband that views that trash…starts to disrespect him. If he wants feminism to stop…he needs to do his part.
      Read the link I first posted, about how I am dubed as a feminist. Read the language that was spoken over to me by all those wicked men. Read the “shaming” language that was put on me because I am just a woman.

      When did I once use dirty language to get my point across? When did I once use pornographic slang?

      And honestly, I don’t see that his business is his business when he publically promotes such filth through his blog. He opens himself up to it. Just as I open myself up to it…and I am glad to talk about. I have nothing to hide

      A person who is walking with the Lord would be appalled at such garbage you both promote.

  13. Cybro says:

    It’s the usual shaming going on in here against Marky. Gee never heard any of that trash before. But what about these so called Christian Feminists? How can someone be a Christian and a baby killer at the same time? I run into these wacked out broads even in the most conservative churches. Narcissism is the least of their problems. They possess delusions of grandeur and denials of reality at levels even Lucifer could not attain. Claiming to be a Christian Feminist is as ridiculous as claiming to be a Christian Communist, Christian Atheist or Christian Satanist. Even those groups of human demons were not so bold as to mix the two terms.

    • I only published this to show everyone the absurdity of this comment.

    • Mara says:

      You obviously don’t really know what a feminist is.
      You’ve been taken in by the spin of preachers that don’t have anything better to do than to pick on women who don’t want to be doormats but would rather be viewed as human beings.

      A woman killing her baby doesn’t make her equal with men or human and Christian feminists are pro-life. Ever heard of Sarah Palin?

      Feminist is not equal to pro-abortion.
      You don’t get to define the terms, no matter how highly you think of yourself.

      • Mara says:

        Should I have not answered it then?
        If not, you can remove my post.

      • No not you Mara, but Cybro. Read that comment, and get a good laugh

      • Mara says:

        I knew you meant Cybro (is that short for Cyber-brother?)

        Sorry if I got a bit caught up. Just really bothers me the disrespect some men feel free to throw on women at will, like it’s their God-ordained privilege. I just didn’t like the way he was treating you and had a hard time keeping out of it.

      • I don’t take offense to it…I am posting this so real men and women can see what kind of junk is being promoted in “Christian” patriarchy circles, and not get duped by it
        Laura Grace especially has a blog that is touted as “godly” and yet she is defending this man that has no qualm with using dirty language and dirty ideas to speak badly of women.

        I know Marky mark has asked the men from his blog to come make a comment, which is why Cybro came on here. They think they are really showing me something. Yeah they are. They are showing me what idiots they really are. They are doing nothing to change my mind…and to show the Christian world that patriarchy is not of God.

        My husband has had some really good belly laughs from this. Especially the one about being a baby killer. Um…yeah.

  14. MarkyMark says:

    Ladies,

    Saying that there are good feminists or Christian feminists is akin to saying that there are good Nazis or Christian Nazis. Saying that there are good feminists or Christian feminists is like saying that there are KKK members that are good. That’s balderdash! Sorry, but a feminist is a feminist is a feminist-end of story.

    Oh, and as for Sarah Palin, you know she endorsed Carly Fiorina, right? I did an entire post on that. If for no other reason, click the link, and follow the links in my post. There’s LOTS of damning information there! Fiorina is a feminist, just like Barbara Boxer is. Oh, she’s not as socialist as Boxer is, but that’s not saying much. What you conservatives don’t get is that Sarah Palin is selling you down the river, big time. The joke’s on you…

    I have to retire for the night. Someone has to get up, and pay for all the illegal aliens, single moms, and their womb turds, and it’s productive people like me. I’m out of here…

    MarkyMark

    • Your name calling of baby killer and feminist, misses me completely. The real issue is your total rejection of the idea that a woman is capable of independent thought. When your argument is void of objective fact and regresses to name calling, it leads the reader to believe you suffer from some type of gender inferiority complex. i.e. You’re addicted to porn because it makes you feel superior to women.

      How did Sarah Palin get into this????

      Calling children womb turds, who is the baby killer now?

  15. Jenny says:

    I see that he’s trying to drum up more commenters for this blog: http://markymarksthoughts.blogspot.com/2010/08/check-this-out.html

    I for one think that anyone who asks someone else highly personal questions with the intent on running that person’s name through the mud has no cause to be offended when highly personal questions are asked of him.

    • Jenny, he is also saying that I said that he had a “massive” porn addiction. I did not say that. I asked him on his blog if he ever looked at porn and what he did to stop it. *BECAUSE* he and his fellow men asked ME all sorts of personal questions. And they weren’t phrased nicely. Sort of like the previous comment he made above.

      Which is why I wrote this piece. Porn does affect men to treat women badly, and not only that, but a lot of men in the patriarchy movement are addicted to it. I wanted show Christians how it affected “Christian men” to view women.

  16. Jenny says:

    Was this a reply to me or someone else?

    • I deleted his comment…because it had no relevance to what we were talking about. My true colors are plainly stated on this blog in my “About Me” page. I don’t hide it.

  17. Bonanza says:

    Jumpers to jeans:

    There is such thing as being civil when having a intellectual conversation, and frankly my dear, you are miles and miles away from it. I’d say more, but I already know this is becoming a brick conversation.

    • You men are really laughable. Telling me to be civil, and to speak intellectually. and acting all high and mighty about how great you are at conversing. Go back to Marky’s blog and read how you “civil” men treat and speak of women. You are only making yourself look more foolish. I have had my husband read all of this, and he is very intellectual. He laughed his head off at some of the “logic” you men use.

  18. I am addressing other readers of this blog that are not coming from Marky’s. I have not told any of you to go flood his comment box with nasty comments like he did with mine. But that doesn’t surprise me that he did. And frankly I really don’t care….it because he is feeling insecure in who he is.

    Also, I don’t treat all men like Marky. I truly do respect and value men as being human beings. But when they start treating women by default, like animals, I will speak up to it….especially men claiming “Christianity” to suit their purposes. And also flaming *me* for my treatment of them, when they were, by far, MUCH worse in their treatment to me, is hypocritical…but again. I am not surprised. The world needs to know there really are men out there like this…hiding in our churches. Hiding behind the name of our Saviour. Jesus did not promote such philosophies and language. They refuse to see this. Again, I am not surprised.

    But I wrote this post, and posted the comments to show the innocent Christians who maybe on the path towards “Christian Patriarchy”, to show where it can lead and go.

    Marky in his post to tell all his readers to come comment on my blog, had this comment posted on his blog:

    “Muslim Patriarch said…
    Women. They are all the same. Conservative, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Feminist, cavewoman! They work to control and manipulate men to do their bidding, whether by feigning innocence and using their childlike looks, feigning morals, or using theories and other men against us.

    It is in their nature. Women need to manipulate men, or they wouldn’t survive. Women will do whatever it takes to manipulate men. If the man is into philosophy, she will feign interest in philosophy. If he is religious, she becomes religious. If he is a spineless herb, she becomes a feminist.

    The nature of women truly disgusts me as a man. It is hard for me to imagine a person who doesn’t have a code of honor. But that is women.

    The MRA web shouldn’t categorize women into bad feminists and good traditionals. Both groups are manipulative whores.”
    If you want, you can read his blog here:
    http://muslimpatriarch.blogspot.com/
    In which he has posted (surprise surprise) a link to “tasteful erotica”

    Marky’s Response to “Muslim Patriarch”

    ” MarkyMark said…
    Muslim Patriarch,
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I noticed that your religion is the only one willing to put women in their place…”

    Doesn’t that speak volumes?

    And yes, Marky, I blocked you, from posting on this blog. I have not since posted on your blog, and I don’t intend to. Go back to your fantasy world and stay there please.

    You can get mad all you want, and post more blog posts… I don’t care. I am not threatened by you. I am know who I am in Christ and am confident in Him. I only posted your garbage to show people what goes under the guise of Christianity…which is not Christianity. Christianity produces love for all people…not hate. And yes, you hate women. Go convert to Islam, which seems to suit your purposes better.

  19. jack says:

    Use of porn by females is on the rise, in some reports shockingly so.

    Also, sexual predation by women is much higher than it used to be as well.
    Google “the big list” on worldnetdaily

    I used to believe that women, as a group, were not capable of the depravity that men were capable of. But now I see that what I witnessed as a kid was the leftovers of the cultural momentum of past generations of classier, more moral women. This is rapidly being bred out of women now.

    I have to echo Mark’s view that there is not a very good supply of high-quality women. Too many of them have become excessively materialistic and obsessed with worldly ideas of success and status.

    The sluttification of many women is seen as a form of freedom, and the echo-chamber of girl-talk encouragement ensures that any opposing thoughts are quickly shouted down. I feel bad for the women who would like to remain chaste but get carried away by the cultural current into sin.

    To an even greater extent than men, women are susceptible to groupthink and are often enslaved by fashion.

    • Jack you are the FIRST man that sympathizes with Marky, that have actually tried to make sense with your position, and be respectful at the same time. Which is why I published your comment.

      You are right, Sexual predation is a problem among women…and I do not disagree with you in the slightest. However, like I said on Marky’s Blog. With God…. sin has no gender. Men and Women are on equal playing field when it comes to God’s judgment against sin. You may of not read my remarks about that on Marky’s blog…But I did say it.

      Both Men and Women deserve to go Hell….it is Jesus’ blood that cleanses from all unrighteousness. I have problems with Marky enspouseing that ALL women are on the road to perdition, and not take into account his own sins before he lam blasts every woman in the world. You say that there is not a very good supply of high-quality of women. You might be right. But he deems them all damnable…even ones redeemed by the blood of the lamb.

      However to counter that there isn’t a good supply of high-quality women…there is an equal bad supply of high-quality men. Which is why I posted the porn post. Men are guilty just as much women. And every time a man looks at porn he is funding and encouraging that hatred of women for men. As a general whole, men need to learn to earn respect before they demand it. To demand respect is to be a dictator. To earn respect is to be a responsible person. Some individual men have earned respect, and the attract high-quality individual women.

      In your world you may not see many high-quality women. But I know A LOT of them. I also know A LOT of high quality men. Instead of focusing on the short comings of the culture and griping about it, I seek like minded people. No it isn’t easy to do so. As a general whole, our American population it is hard to find both high quality men and women. It indeed seems to be an impossible task. I myself used to bemoan the fact that I couldn’t find “likeminded” people. But when I stopped focusing on the negative, and started to focus on Jesus, I attracted likeminded people. Who wants to be around a grouch?

      But the population isn’t as hopeless as you and Mark make out to be.

      I don’t know what happened to you as a kid…and whatever was done to you is wrong. But just because a woman sinned against you as a little boy, does not mean all women are perverted, and immoral. Just like if a man committed a sin against a little girl doesn’t mean all men are perverted and immoral.

      The lesson is this. None of mankind can be trusted. The only man that can be trusted is Jesus. We are all sinners. We are all doomed…and unless we seek the truth of who Jesus is and what he has done, and daily submit to *HIM*, we all are capable of horrendous acts.

  20. Mara says:

    Thank you, J2J for shutting him down.

    I wouldn’t be caught dead in the reeking landfill he calls his blog and will never darken the door of that hell-hole.

    I have a much harder time staying away from blogs where honest and gracious women are doing their best to make sense of a senseless world and trying to recover from abusive religious situations.

    And, as you saw, it is nearly impossible for me to keep my mouth shut when I see women-haters come into these places and spew their filth on the innocent.

    But I should have known you had it under control, had the right attitude, and knew how to deal with the likes of Markymark.
    You didn’t need my help at all.
    You have my respect.

    If he’d a come to my blog, I’d a never let his first comment through.
    He has nothing construtive to say to any woman anywhere.

    • I had a nice comment all ready to post, and something bliped and I lost it. I was just going to say, that I understand your wanting to open your mouth. I also bought lies of an abusive religion. I am still trying to make sense of it all. I have come a LONG way in my healing. And by LONG I mean LONG!

      I also posted all the garbage to show Christians that are on this path of Christian Patriarchy of where it can lead to. The woman who writes the Blog, “Full of Grace Seasoned with salt” is very respected among the patriarchial circles. Then she writes a guest post for Marky. People need to see what kind of lies she is feeding to women.

      And when I believed all this crap, and tried to adhere to it, my husband lost his respect for me. And really who could blame him? I had become a mindless robot. He wanted a real live person.

  21. Mara says:

    I should probably leave this well enough alone, and J2J, if you don’t like this comment then don’t let it through.

    There is an extremely legalistic, follow the words Paul concerning women to the letter, bend in some of these harmful movements. And a reading into those words of Paul even more restrictive than what is really there. Anyone who questions their reading of Paul or work toward what Paul was really trying to say are labeled “heretic” at worst, but at the least, “not respecting the Holy Writ”.

    But often, these groups have also come in and said that a certain story in the Gospels is questionable, not reliable, and probably shouldn’t be in there.

    And it is the story of the adulterous women who was thrown at the feet of Jesus.
    These men, who hate this story, hate the mercy He showed that woman caught in adultery.

    I want to echo J2J. Both men and women can be good. Both men and women can sin. Both men and women can be evil. Both men and women can repent and be made clean and whole again by the blood of Jesus.

    Back to the adulterous woman.
    The men who threw her at the feet of Jesus, for some reason, thought it was okay to give the man she was commiting adultery with, a pass, yet bring her to full judgement.
    Even though the law says that both must be stoned.

    Markymark, and his kind, are like the men who threw the woman at the feet of Jesus. They are overly concerned with the sins of women to the neglect of the sins of men. They chase after every bit of evidence, both real and false, of any sins of women. Yet when it comes to men, they turn a blind eye.
    It is a false balance that Jesus would not allow.

    Jesus does not automatically take the man’s side, or the male point-of-view because He came into this world as a man. He doesn’t look at women as especially sinful, manipulative, or false. Jesus holds none of the prejudices of men.

    He is fair and just to all.

    And this is why we love Him.
    God is our Judge. He is also merciful.
    And we all need that mercy.

    • Mara, http://www.thatmom.com is going to be doing an interview with a man who author’s a book called, “What is it With Paul and Women” or something like that. I am anxious to hear about it!

      Good point about the aulterous woman. Let him who have no sin be the first the throw the stone.

  22. jack says:

    You are correct that sin knows no gender.

    However, that does not mean that both genders are always equal in their pursuit of sin at times in history. I believe that many years ago, women (especially Christian ones) were a major force in keeping many of mens’ bad tendencies in line.

    I used to believe that it was ALWAYS so.

    But now, I think that the seductive pitch of feminism has, during this present era, provided a form of cover that has allowed and encouraged women to pursue all of their impulses to the extreme, refusing to differentiate between good impulses or bad, or understanding that context can determine whether it is good or bad.

    For example, sex:
    Sex with a woman who is my wife = good. Sex with a hooker = bad.

    But feminism has taught many women to resent ANY AND ALL judgments of their actions at any time as “sexist”. Men are not allowed to have an unfavorable opinion of women and their action, even as women have a symphony of complaints and criticism about the defects men possess.

    Let’s admit some general truths about people:

    1) Most people would prefer to have more power to having less power (financial power, political, sexual, whatever).

    2) The law and a person’s own morals are the only real check on the exercise of that power.

    3) Most people WILL USE any socially or legally acceptable form of power that they can.

    4) Power that comes easily will be more likely to be used. Very attractive people CAN often get ahead on looks, right? Physically strong people CAN be bullies. Rich people CAN use money to control situations. People will nearly always use a convenient method.

    Which brings us to:

    5) Most young women have very high sexual-market power. Why did anyone think that feminism was going to turn all the young women into electrical engineers, astronauts, architects, medical researchers, etc. When you lift all constraints on a person, they will always choose the path of least resistance – it is human nature. Giving women total freedom to act on all their impulses should have led anyone to predict that they would go for the quickest route – flashing their bodies around and being promiscuous.

    I do think that AT THIS TIME women have managed to beat men at the game of sin and pride. But it is only the current couple generations of them. Things will change again as they always do.

    Men, whether you believe it or not, live under an amazing amount of constraints. The average guy is not out sleeping around like a true alpha – when women say that all men are enjoying the fruit of the sexual revolution, they only think that because they don’t even NOTICE the dutiful beta male who lives honorably. He is invisible (what a nice guy, let’s just be friends).

    As a woman, it is understandable that you are not as cognizant of the soul-crushing weight of being a Christian male in these times.

    The Christian girls get a chorus of sympathy for not yet having a husband. The single Christian men get a chorus of scorn for not “manning up” and getting a wife, or they get called a bitter loser, or some other shaming tactic.

    Marky Mark is the formerly friendly dog who has had the life kicked out of him by the forces I describe above. Love or hate him, he was made this way by events that he would never have agreed to.

    Someday on judgment day, these women will account to God for making themselves the sexual playthings of a series of boyfriends, and they will also account for giving away their virtue and robbing their future husband of their chastity.

    Oh, and porn, the original topic?

    Let me possibly shock you by saying that as a born-again spirit-filled sinner saved by grace and desirous of honoring Christ and his sacrifice, I think the concerns about porn are WAY WAY WAY overblown.

    I think that many Christian women have serious Victorian hangups about male sexuality (that they mistake for spiritual reasons). Yes, really.

    Am I an advocate or supporter of porn? No.

    But I think that a young woman getting tummy butterflies over a some romance novel or secretly lusting after some celebrity is CLOSE ENOUGH to pornographic for me.

    I know that your worldview is probably such that you will be hostile to my point, so save yourself the trouble of “explaining” to me the “difference” between porn and trashy romance novels – I heard ‘em all.

    Lust is lust is lust:
    Man+porn
    Women+bodice-ripper romance novel
    Girl+boy band poster

    If a person is feeding their appetite for carnal desires, it is bad. Porn is only different in DEGREE, but it is all the same spirit.


    • However, that does not mean that both genders are always equal in their pursuit of sin at times in history. I believe that many years ago, women (especially Christian ones) were a major force in keeping many of mens’ bad tendencies in line.


      I believe this is a wrong point of view…and here is why. Sin is sin is sin. It doesn’t matter what type of sin it is. Once you commit one you are a sinner. Once you commit a sin, you are guilty before God and are on even playing field with every human being on the face of the planet that has comitted sin


      Romans 3:10-11 (King James Version)

      10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

      11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


      Romans 3:19 (King James Version)

      19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God

      No one is innocent Jack. No one will make it to heaven being less of a sinner than someone else. No one will make it to heaven because their pursuit of morality was better than a certain sex or people group.

      I am not advocating prostitution…and the showing off of body parts. However…men and women in times past are equal in their pursuit of sin. Honestly you are doing the same thing Adam did. He Blamed his wife for his sin. Adam knew better, and not only did he know better, but he was with Eve when the serpent tempted her. He could of told her no. He could of knocked the fruit out of her hand. But he didn’t.

      And not only did Adam blame her for his sin, he ultimately blamed God. Because he said in essence, “God’s it your fault, you gave her to me”

      I will answer in italics


      1) Most people would prefer to have more power to having less power (financial power, political, sexual, whatever).


      I will not deny that Jack. It is obvious that the love of money, and idolatry, and etc are sins. No one is exempt. No male nor female.

      2) The law and a person’s own morals are the only real check on the exercise of that power.
      Only to those who are not born again. Only to those who fight a culture war, instead of embracing Jesus. And it will ALWAYS be like that until Jesus comes back and rules with a rod of iron and makes everything right.

      3) Most people WILL USE any socially or legally acceptable form of power that they can.
      True.

      4) Power that comes easily will be more likely to be used. Very attractive people CAN often get ahead on looks, right? Physically strong people CAN be bullies. Rich people CAN use money to control situations. People will nearly always use a convenient method.
      And not all people who are good looking strong, and rich are “bad” in the sense of morality. Sometimes that power can be good. I will admit I am thankful there are laws that protect women. Why? Look at the Muslim countries. Look at the Muslim that posted on Marky’s blog. That is very telling of what men would do to women if they were handed back that “power” that you desire. I do believe that men are used and abused. I had a brother that was. He is still pretty bitter and angry from it. My husband had an uncle that was. He took confidence in his personhood and is happily married again to a woman that loves and respects him. So I am not denying that women abuse their “power”, but men do abuse their power as well to once given to them. Again, look at the muslim countries that marry of girls as young as 6 or 8 years old. Look at them.

      5) Most young women have very high sexual-market power. Why did anyone think that feminism was going to turn all the young women into electrical engineers, astronauts, architects, medical researchers, etc. When you lift all constraints on a person, they will always choose the path of least resistance – it is human nature. Giving women total freedom to act on all their impulses should have led anyone to predict that they would go for the quickest route – flashing their bodies around and being promiscuous

      Actually I know of several woman engineers, medical researchers, some astronauts, and architects. Just because not all women are those things doesn’t mean feminism didn’t work out. Not all men are engineers, astronauts, architects, and medical reserachers.
      I am married to a man that is quite frank in his discussion with me about how men view the world. So I do know somewhat of your delima and your argument here. And I am not saying it isn’t not at all valid in some points.
      It’s the whining and complaining that the woman are at fault for everything and men not taking responsibility for their own faults and issues, and saying it’s the woman’s fault because they have these faults and issues. Sorry, I don’t believe that nor respect that point.

      I do think that AT THIS TIME women have managed to beat men at the game of sin and pride. But it is only the current couple generations of them. Things will change again as they always do.

      It is ridiculous to believe that women have the upper hand on sin. Men and women are equal with sin. And far as pride….everyone has had trouble with that particular sin. To think that the more one is prideful the more they deserve to be punished somehow isn’t a good argument. There is none on this earth, except Jesus that is innocent.


      Men, whether you believe it or not, live under an amazing amount of constraints. The average guy is not out sleeping around like a true alpha – when women say that all men are enjoying the fruit of the sexual revolution, they only think that because they don’t even NOTICE the dutiful beta male who lives honorably. He is invisible (what a nice guy, let’s just be friends).

      And neither are the women sleeping around as much as you believe either. Like Marky says, 99.999% of women are. Um…no.
      As far as alpha and what not. I may have a dutiful and beta male, and I married him. I still believe it is because he earned my respect. Not all the guys did that, and they were cocky and confident and egotististic, and I found that silly and repulsive. My husband caught my eye.

      <blockquote>Marky Mark is the formerly friendly dog who has had the life kicked out of him by the forces I describe above. Love or hate him, he was made this way by events that he would never have agreed to.
      Believe it or not, I don’t hate Marky Mark. I do feel bad for him if he had a rough time with a woman. Again, I have a brother that was used and abused by a woman. I lived through it, as I was just a little girl when he hooked up with her.
      However, this woman that used to be his wife was used and abused sexually as a little girl by a male. It was not my brother’s fault she was like she was…but she was still misused by a male, which construed her view of them to be one of health.


      Someday on judgment day, these women will account to God for making themselves the sexual playthings of a series of boyfriends, and they will also account for giving away their virtue and robbing their future husband of their chastity.


      No doubt. But so will we give an account for what we have done. Again….no one is innocent.


      Romans 14:10 (King James Version)
      10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


      Romans 2:1 (King James Version)

      Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest

      Romans 2:3 (King James Version)
      And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?


      Let me possibly shock you by saying that as a born-again spirit-filled sinner saved by grace and desirous of honoring Christ and his sacrifice, I think the concerns about porn are WAY WAY WAY overblown.

      I think that many Christian women have serious Victorian hangups about male sexuality (that they mistake for spiritual reasons). Yes, really.

      Well, I got my ideas from my husband about Porn. I have met a few women who are mistreated and abused because of porn. As far as Victorian hang ups…isn’t that where you men want us to go back to? To the good old days when men were in complete power? I have no qualms about how men view sex. But it needs to be done in the right context. I.e, married to a woman, saving his eyes only for her, and keeping his mind from getting hung up on how women’s sexuality should be, through his use of porn, and other resources that demean women less than a dog.

      But I think that a young woman getting tummy butterflies over a some romance novel or secretly lusting after some celebrity is CLOSE ENOUGH to pornographic for me.
      I agree and I find it silly and pretty gross that women go gah gah over men like that. And like I told marky and others. I don’t read romance novels. Believe it or not. And there are women out there that don’t either. Believe it or not.

      If a person is feeding their appetite for carnal desires, it is bad. Porn is only different in DEGREE, but it is all the same spirit.

      Finally, one of marky’s readers gets the point of my porn question. Which if some one is looking at porn in regularly, and sees no problem with it, it is still lust, he is still “bad”, and is still guilty of sin. No one is exempt. Male and Female are both sinners who deserve Hell and need God’s redemption.
      Marky admitted he had viewed porn…he did not say how much. However his use of slang terms, that I had not even heard of, his frequent use of the “F” word towards women…all point to him being guilty of such.

      And my point in that wasn’t to make myself look better than Marky…because I am not. My point was that Marky needs to take a closer look at himself before he writes the way he does.

      You are the first male that holds the position of Marky, that is actually conversing instead of getting a thrill for saying stupid and nonsense stuff that has nothing to do with anything. I appreciate that. Thank you.


      Galatians 3:28 (King James Version)

      28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus

  23. If I may respectfully weigh in, I hope my perspective can be heard from the heart I intend it to be.

    I found your post because I follow Marky’s blog. I don’t agree with everything he writes, but I feel he (and many of the increasing numbers of men on this bandwagon) raise some excellent points. There are very good, committed Christian male bloggers lamenting what has happened between the sexes as well. This is really not a fluke.

    While Laura Grace’s style is definitely in-your-face, she, too raises good points. Like you, Denim Jumpers, I was oblivious to the fact that this discussionwas going on among Christians. I knew feminism was wrong, because as black woman who has grown up seeing on a grand scale what happens when a community, with a current 70 illegitimacy rate, becomes matriarchal, when men are expendable, and fathers are irrelevant at best and absent at worst.

    America is well on her way to the same statistic with a current 40% illegitimacy rate. So I started looking and listening, and reading. I saw that teh laws in this country heavily tilt in favor of women and marginalize men. I saw Christian women (I am not a product of fundamentalism or patriarchy, though I would characterize myself as complementarian) divorcing their husbands for trivial reasons and engaging in extramarital affairs. This was shocking to me because I had been conditioned to believe that men were the much more likely to be guilty of these sins, but from what I could see, women are every much as likely to do this stuff.

    What’s worse was that the church (remember I am a product of mainstream Christianity which boasts far more members than fundamentalist churches) was turning a blind eye for the most part, telling men that they need to do more to keep thier wives happy. While fundamentalists harp on the women, mainstream Christianity harps on the men. In reality, both bear some guilt, but women are definitely getting a free pass.

    As I witnessed all of this, feminism, even the most “benign” forms of it, began to turn my stomach. I figured if I was going to err in my own life, I’d err on the other side.

    Am I condoning profane language, name-calling, and the likes? Well, no. That’s not my reason for commenting. What drew me in was the fact that you, like me until recently, had no idea this conversation was taking place in the church.

    In reality, it isn’t. But it’s taking place in the Christian blogosphere. Wherever you fall on the issue, it’s a conversation that needs to be had.

    Blessings to you. Any fan of Elizabeth Esther’s can’t be all bad.

    • Terry, I appreciate your comment for being normal. I am sorry, but Marky and Laura does a horrible job of representing their positions. I can agree that there are women out there that hate men, and mistreat them, and misuse them.

      I am well aware of women divorcing for trivial things. But I *AM NOT* that women, and I don’t appreciate being called horrible horrific names. Honestly that made my stomach churn. I went out shopping the day I found Marky’s blog, and every man, that I looked at, I wondered if he too thought all women were whores. I even doubted my own husband’s sanity.

      As far as “christian” women divorcing I am not condoning it. But neither am I condoning marky and his crowd calling all women whores, bitches, to f*ck off, “team Vagina”.

      And I am not going to err on either side of this gender war game. Both “sides” are wrong, stupid, immature, asinine and not found in the Bible.

      Do you agree with Marky that the Muslims do a better job with their women?

      • Gosh, no! The way Islamic culture treats women is reprehensible and I could never condone it.

        Do I think this issue needs to be handled with a lot more civility? Absolutely. In fact, while I absolutely agree that men have gotten the shaft in America, I think people who call names and hurl insults in response do a fair amount of damage to their cause and turn off fair-minded people like me, and I gather you (you seem reasonable enough to me), who were rather oblivious to where we are and the need for a more equitable distribution of justice for men and women.

        Justice is certainly a Biblical concept, I’m sure you’d agree.

        I never meant to imply that I support foul language or insults of any kind.

      • What I am trying to show here, is that Marky and his gang are *not* raising the issue you think they are. He is promoting the Islamic way of treating a woman. He said that Muslims were the only religion willing to put women in their proper place.He said that specifically.

        How is that raising the issue between women as a whole mistreating men? I don’t think it is. It is only going to turn people away from Christ and away from his *maybe* legitment points. But who knows what his points really are, when he goes on his triads about women?

        I am not oblivious to militant feminism. I was oblivious to “Christian” men having such a vehement hatred towards women. That was where my obliviousness came into play. To call himself a Christian and be perfectly ok with using such degrading language, and wicked thoughts towards women is hypocritical towards the doctrine of Jesus Christ. I am sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse, gender war or not, for such humiliation against a woman, or another human being, simply because they are a woman, or another race.

        1 John 3:14 (King James Version)
        We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

        I have no problem with him believing what he does, but to claim the name Christian, and then drag real Christians into his hatred is wrong.

        And I am writing this in a hurry, I have company on their way, and still need to get a shower, LOL! But I just want to let you know, my passion is not towards you, but towards what I believe is a bunch of lies that are twisting the beauty of BOTH genders that God created. And it sickens me.

  24. If I may add one more comment: I didn’t come here to “flood your comment box.” I was just intrigued. I don’t read the comments on MarkyMark’s blog, haven’t in a very long time because of the points you raised. I follow it through a reader. I still think there is a bit of merit to some of what he has to say…

    • There is merit in the “issue” true…. but there is no merit in whatsoever in what Marky says when he cushions it heavily with profanity, and viewing woman the way he does. Again, I am not a feminist. But if raising awareness, and concern over the way a “Christian” man talks about and to women makes me one, than call me one. I don’t care.

    • Also I want to ask you to please go read his blog in the last few posts he made….see for yourself. He is not raising the issue, he hates women. He makes it sound nicer by saying he doesn’t hate them, but he hates what the become. Well, that is the same as hating them.
      He hates you included. You are a woman, and that makes you a man hating feminist. Like it or not. No matter what graces you posses. No matter if you are a child of God. You hate men. You shame them. You need to be treated like a dog…all because God made you a woman.

  25. jack says:

    I believe this is a wrong point of view…and here is why. Sin is sin is sin. It doesn’t matter what type of sin it is. Once you commit one you are a sinner. Once you commit a sin, you are guilty before God and are on even playing field with every human being on the face of the planet that has comitted sin

    If you are talking about salvation, yes. If you are talking about contributing to the downfall of a culture, there is no universal law that states that the sexes always contribute exactly equally. Additionally, guilt before God and guilt in society are two different things.

    No one is innocent Jack. No one will make it to heaven being less of a sinner than someone else. No one will make it to heaven because their pursuit of morality was better than a certain sex or people group.

    This has never been an argument about going to heaven, though. This is a discussion about damage to a culture. The fact that you think you need to make this point makes me feel like you are not really reading what I wrote. I never said a thing about salvation being by works. I said nothing about innocence. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

    However…men and women in times past are equal in their pursuit of sin.

    You have no proof of this. Sin before God and sin that damages a culture are two different things. You need to stop thinking in terms of salvation and think in terms of bad behavior. My assertion is that certain groups are, at certain points in time, more enabled or more motivated to commit various wrongs. You have a much harder thing to prove; your assertion that bad behavior is always and everywhere equal in terms of gender. Since people are ALL DIFFERENT, I think your assertion of equality in SINFUL ACTIONS (not sinful nature) is obviously based on your desire to have an equalist worldview.

    I have essentially said that behavior is variable over time. You have stated that it always shifts in perfectly equal ways. Please, this is not credible thinking. I made it clear that I think that the majority of women used have be a stronger moral force than men, but have abandoned it for the time being. So you cannot accuse me of thinking that women are worse then men. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t. Your refusal to even consider the idea that groups of people change in different ways comes across as being defensive. You fear admitting even one fault in women, and you constantly bring in a comparison to men. You see, as a man who is secure in his position, I can talk about mens’ failings in great detail without EVER needing to remind everyone that “women are not perfect either”. I have no team to defend, unlike the feminists.

    Also, I am not blaming women for my sin, like in your example. I am OBSERVING that in general, their behavior is becoming atrocious. My sin is my own issue, for which I accept responsibility. Do not put words in my mouth or suggest that I am blaming others for my sins.

    Re #4) Thank you for agreeing with me. Notice my use of the word “people”. That should eliminate the need for you to admonish me to remember that men abuse power too. (Wow –really??!!) Please note also my use of the word “can” abuse power. Notice my avoidance of words like “always” and “will”. The word “can” implies that something is possible, but is not necessarily guaranteed. (See – no fun being talked down to, is it?).

    Re #5) Alas, this is where typical feminist politically correct debate tactics take over in full force. The fact that you know some engineers is irrelevant.

    You are correct that the failure of feminism cannot be proven because as you so frivolously put it “not all women are those things”.

    That was not my point. My point was that feminism promised great achievements by women, but the largest achievement seems to be a nation of promiscuous, materialistic women.

    Also, you (and many other women) absolutely need to get over your frivolous and specious use of the word “all”. Women are in love with this word because it allows them to imagine that they are winning an intellectual debate. A man makes an intelligent observation, then the woman chimes in “well not all people are like that”. Arguing thusly simply proves to any man that you are trying to start a different argument because you sense that you are losing the first one. It shows also that you are acting in bad faith by implying that a person said something that they did not. Don’t risk your intellectual credibility by making such arguments. If you want men to take you seriously, avoid the use of that tactic.

    It is ridiculous to believe that women have the upper hand on sin. Men and women are equal with sin. And far as pride….everyone has had trouble with that particular sin. To think that the more one is prideful the more they deserve to be punished somehow isn’t a good argument. There is none on this earth, except Jesus that is innocent.

    Careful – your straw man is showing again. Where did I make a statement about punishment? And how does my assertion that one person has sinned more seriously somehow magically equal an argument for the other person’s innocence? Can you prove that everyone struggles EQUALLY with pride? I bet you can’t. Since people are different, their struggle with pride is likely different.

    Besides, why not read Isaiah 3:16 – I suggest that pride is not always EXACTLY equal.

    Honestly, you are helping guys like MarkyMark by arguing irrationally about things no one ever said. You are slowly grinding me down where I will be forced to conclude that most women are seldom rational. (Not “all” of them, btw.) You may not be a feminist, but you argue like one.

    Well, I got my ideas from my husband about Porn. I have met a few women who are mistreated and abused because of porn.

    Well, not all porn users are like that!!!! Hahaha!! I win the argument. Bwahaha! Do you see how stifling that is to honest discourse? See why that tactic should be avoided? Since not ALL porn users abuse women, we should not argue against porn.

    As far as Victorian hang ups…isn’t that where you men want us to go back to? To the good old days when men were in complete power?

    Myth. Men were never in complete power. Feminist talking point. You were not there. Women owned property and businesses and wielded political power. Straw man argument. Also, I am not an advocate of Victorian times as the be-all end-all. I am a fan of chastity and of women stopping their assault on men.

    A little light reading for you
    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/06/27/misandry-a-reading-list/

    These books sell. Can you imagine a similar list of published titles except against women?

    • Mara says:

      Jack, along with J2J, first I want to thank you for being reasonable.

      The Feminist agenda, the kind that says that fathers are not needed and that women become equal by killing their babies, is bad news. It is not helping our society and is tearing it down.

      Where I part with you is on the notion that the Feminist agenda is more guilty than similar male agendas.

      Or maybe you don’t think the feminist agenda is more guilty, you are just more angry with it because, as a man, you understand it less.

      I don’t know.

      But there is a move within much of the Christianity to scapegoat the ‘evil woman’ or jezebel, as the root cause of society’s decay. And many, many men and women are jumping on this bandwagon. Some rabidly so, like Markymark, to the point that he’s not even thinking rationally.

      Yet, at the very same time, there is a movement within the church to normalize pornographic behavior, bring talk of it into Sunday Morning services and commanding people to engage in it in the marriage bed, thus defiling the marriage bed, turning wives into husbands’ personal prostitutes (servicing their husbands) and husbands into whoremongers.

      And young men, who don’t know any better, don’t know that our nation used to have sodomy laws against such behavior are eating it up and calling it God-ordained, when really it is a spirit of harlotry.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

      It is the Jezebel spirit that teaches men and women to commit fornication, in the form of immoral sexual acts. Revelation 2:20 speaks of this jezebel spirit that men are gobbling up but try to clean up by saying as long as it only goes on between husband and wife, it’s okay.
      Really?
      Are you that sure?
      Better read Rev 2:20&21, look at the judgement on jezebel and what jezebel really is. It ain’t feminism, like men suppose. It’s pornography. And the church is embracing it spearheaded by the likes of Mark Driscoll.

    • Mara says:

      On a side note, about you misandry reading list.
      I know this sounds like I’m trying to be a snot. But really, I’m not. I’m just trying to point out something that completely escapes so many.

      At least women just write books.

      Men and boys act out their misogyny differently.

      http://www.myconsolidated.net/news/read.php?ps=1011&rip_id=%3CD9HLHNJO0%40news.ap.org%3E&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCLM_UNEWS

      Read about this case and how these boys tortured these girls before they finally killed them. They didn’t know those girls. The ONLY reason they killed them was because they were girls, female, less-human to them than males.

      Sorry about the reading list.
      But considering the bigger picture, it is quite harmless when compared to the crimes commited against women because they are women.

    • Jack I promise you I am not trying to put words into your mouth. I am just musing and bringing what you did write, to it’s logical conclusion.

      I have to get back to my family, and I will write a response to your last comment when I have the time. I am not intimated by what you wrote….but I have a huge busy day ahead of me, and cannot devote the time I need to write out a response.

    • Jack you said:

      Most young women have very high sexual-market power. Why did anyone think that feminism was going to turn all the young women into electrical engineers, astronauts, architects, medical researchers, etc. When you lift all constraints on a person, they will always choose the path of least resistance – it is human nature. Giving women total freedom to act on all their impulses should have led anyone to predict that they would go for the quickest route – flashing their bodies around and being promiscuous.
      ————–

      I don’t know about you Jack, but I never got the impression that feminism was after turning all people into professionals. Their chant if I remember correctly, was ‘choice’.

      YES, the 1960’s ushered in the sexual revolution. I guess you could say women decided to meet the men on their realm, because sleeping around as much as possible has been known as a male trait more so before then.

      As far as materialistic? Look at history! Men and women have done all kinds of strange and immoral things to ‘grasp’ something of what they felt was of value. There has been some sick puppies in the past that grasped that materialism, and didn’t have a though for the people they crushed beneath them.

      Women that wanted to be a professional asked that they were not deprived of doing just that, and if their choice was flashing their bodies around, etc they of course could choose that path. If you look at history using their bodies though has been around forever – hookers for example. The door wasn’t always open for a different type of profession.

      I agree that some people that aren’t handed constraints will choice the path of less resistance. Heck even with constraints they will do that! I don’t get the point though. So women getting total freedom as you put made the world worse now, because not just men are taking part like in the past?

      Yes, I agree morality in alot of cases went into the trash heap. People say that happened faster because women now join men? Okay. Its shows the sinful nature of humans.

      On the other hand, that is also like saying its worse now, because we let women join us in the muck. THAT is why it is their fault! If that is the case it shouldn’t be hate mongering towards any gender. They should both be considered slime balls.

      Keep in mind when one party has no constraints, and other does? Human nature also wants to have the constraints removed.

      People in general – all of history – had a choice to go along with the cultural idea of life, or choice the upright moral stand. I personally admire people that choose the second, because not only is it the correct path but a harder one. There are of temptations out there in the world – always was!

      There will always be people that want to whore around. YES change has happened once again in our world, but parties of both genders will again have a choice of the moral high ground.

      No gender has cornered the market on that either. Things have changed alot since I was child watching the movement – no doubt! I remember some silly things I couldn’t do due to gender at that time. Most of those things that were silly have been removed. I’m talking even SMALL things, like I wanted to play baseball! The ‘no girls allowed’ sign has been removed for that now.

      I also remember the heat of racism, and they have come along way from the attitudes of the past that were acceptable as well. You will always have prejudice of course, but we aren’t so insensitive and hurtful as we were. Although I will admit in some areas its got truly stupid!

      Should we have NOT changed that due to some wanting to be hypersensitive about race now? I doubt you would say we should have let the prejudice pigs continue in their viewpoints, and stop others from having freedoms they enjoy today!

      That change opened doors for so many people, and YES it has its not so great point as well. We now have people of all colors, race, and gender using those things to harm others when ‘prejudice’ can’t be applied, but BOY they sure try! They harm the ones that are truly victimized! I wouldn’t want to go back to those days due to that!

      At no time in history did men and women NOT have the choice to take the higher moral ground. Do I hope the world slows down long enough to see the HUGE pit that is coming? Heck YES! Today isn’t the first time in history that sexual morals, etc have taken a huge DIP! Check your history! Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? I have no doubt the penalty is coming!

  26. TL says:

    Mara,

    The really horrific thing about the news story is that this attitude of women as less than men is being promoted shamelessly by young men today. The guy who complained about this website has young men on it who support Muslim traditions toward women and one of them even hosts a webpage of nude women.

    IMO it is important to continually speak out against these attitudes. As well we need to reach out to women that they do not need to allow themselves to be treated with such contempt and usury.

  27. jack says:

    Mara-

    Your inclusion of that article is irrelevant to the argument. I’m afraid it is nothing more that game-playing to go searching around on the internet for extreme example of criminal behavior.

    If you want to play that way, here’s a woman who just killed her kids:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013837-504083.html

    Seeeee???/ See how eeeevil women are? Please, lets not try to win debates by making ridiculous arguments about criminal acts.

    Anyway, the spirit of Jezebel does seem to alive and well among American women today. My question for you – why are you so defensive? If you are not like these women, then why do you feel such a need to defend the slutty and narcissistic members of your gender? Is it all about being a part of “team woman”? Such tribalism does not help credibility.

    Too many women are too emotionally invested in their world view about “women’s issues” to admit some very ugly truths about their gender. Occasionally they will admit that women are not perfect, but then they RUSH to remind us that men are as bad or worse.

    This overt insecurity destroys the woman’s intellectual credibility with any man except the most tender and docile of men (metrosexual, magina, whatever). If you only care to have their validation, you are home free. Those men will trip all over themselves to agree with anything and everything you say.

    If you ever want to win a debate with a man, you must learn to think and debate like a man. This is entirely possible – one of my ex-girlfriends that I was most fond of had guy-like steel-trap thinking and logic. It was always enjoyable to spar with her intellectually.

    It is a favorite taunt of feminists to say “oh, your fragile ego can’t handle a strong woman”. Heh, right. This ex of mine was the DEFINITION of a strong woman. There was no need to ‘handle’ her. I enjoyed our time together immensely.

    What men cannot ‘handle’ is a weaker woman who desires to be thought of as strong and uses emotions and intellectual fallacies to try and enforce her views. Feminism has taught women that to be a “strong independent woman”, they need only declare themselves so.

    Men and women have both natural attributes and natural limitations.

    The key is to recognize those limitations and work to minimize them. My razor-sharp ex girlfriend is a prime example of a woman who would not, in the face of intellectual conflict, give in and start arguing emotionally.

    There are women to be admired – they are just more rare than they used to be.

    • Quick Reply to this. Still have things I am trying to accomplish so I can’t go into depth.

      I just find it strangely odd that you point out the weakness of women to use her emotions to enforce her views. Perhaps a majority of women do do that. I have also noticed though that men, like to use those God-given womanly emotions against them to manipulate them. I know, because I was emotionally manipulated in a cult like church. And my emotions were very unstable when I was given over to the god of patriarchy. My emotions have slowly healed through renewing of my mind in the Grace of Jesus, and what he accomplished for me on the cross of Calvary. I did loose my brain for a while. But it was a man dominated religion that made me lose it. I put myself under “godly men of God” and I sold my brain, my emotions, and almost my soul to the cause.

      But I have to say you are the first from Marky’s blog to use any reason in your rebuttal to my thoughts.
      And not only are you the first, but Marky keeps posting posts about me, and the men that keep commenting about me, keep saying absolutely crazy things that have nothing to do with anything. It is a true example of pure emotionalism if I ever saw one.

      I will admit that some of my conclusions are written with a bit of emotion. But God gave me these emotions. Not all emotions are bad if they are used correctly. I try to be as objective as I can be…but honestly, no one can be truly objective. There is always some slight variation of subjectivism when someone writes out their view point.

      I can detect a tone of emotion in your posts as well. Especially the last one that I have yet to answer in the last few paragraphs…when you gave the evil laugh. That too is reasoning a bit with emotion.

    • Mara says:

      Jack,
      It’s late and I have to go to bed so can’t answer you thoroughly. Plus, you have completely lost the point, or side stepped it on purpose. Since I don’t know you well enough, I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt.

      The jezebel spirit as described in Revelation 2:20-23 has nothing to do with feminism. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up for yourself. The jezebel in Revelation was promoting pornography.

      (using a king James and a Strongs here)
      In Rev 2:20 Jezebel taught the servant of God to commit fornication.

      The Greek word used was porneuo. From it we get the word pornography, to act the harlot, (lit) to indulge in unlawful lust. It comes from a word having to do with a harlot which come from a word having to do with male prostitutes which implies homosexual acts, such as oral and anal sex. Again, I link the definition of Sodomy Laws that our country used to have. But these laws have been subverted by the porn industry and homosexual activists. Read it and find out what the heck I’m talking about rather than insult me concerning my abilities in logic and reason.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

      The spirit of jezebel, as defined by the Bible, is not feminism.
      It is pornography. I came to this conclusion through logic, reason, and a deep study of the Bible.

      On that side note.

      Your little link to try to tell me that there was no point in linking mine tells me only one thing. That you have missed my point all together. It’s not telling me that I’m emotional, but rather that you are inclined to not take the arguements of women seriously. It’s too easy for you to sweep it aside as ‘emotional’ than to look at it square on and see its merits.

      Misandry is bad. But it is not nearly as dangerous to men as misogyny has been to women.

      Misogyny had gotten out of hand.

      When men are raped, gang raped and/or murdered by women to one fourth of the degree that women are by men, then I’ll agree with you that misandry is starting to actually get dangerous to men. Right now, misandry is mostly surface wounds, wounds to the ego. An annoyance that men don’t want to deal with. Can’t blame you. Who wants to be hated? I know that I don’t.

      Misogyny is killing women, trafficking women, to astronomical degrees.

      Again, if I didn’t make myself clear before, I’m sorry for the reading list. It’s not nice and I don’t agree with these women. There are some very good men in this world. I’m married and have two grown sons that I’m very proud of.
      Misandry is bad.

      But so far. It’s not nearly as dangerous to men and misogyny is to women.
      The statistics speak for themselves.

    • Jack:

      I found your response to Mara quite odd. She mentioned that extreme misandry can lead to criminal acts, etc. She gave you an example. You took that as an example of how bad men are compared to women. That was not her point at all. You seem intelligent, and I have wonder if that is mind game or something. Diversion doesn’t make points.

      You also pointed out an article about a woman that allowed her children to drown. What does that prove? Does that prove that the men she pointed to that gang raped, brutalized those girls didn’t have attitudes of misandry? Does it say those acts don’t characterize the definition? Why not just admit people have warped mindsets, and not take it as attack that ‘all men are bad, and women hardly ever do anything wrong’. No offense, but some would take that as an emotional response. Can’t you see that?

      The spirit of Jezebel seems to be alive and well in ‘people’ today, because women are having sex/trying to control someone – and its not just women they are doing this to. Why aren’t you including those slutty and narcissistic men in your point? I’m sure you can admit men sleep around, and try to control as well can’t you? The term Jezebel has mostly been used for women, but if you look at the story? The traits she showed aren’t gendered based. We need to use some common sense here.

      You wish for people here to admit that ‘women’ can have ‘ugly truths’, and no one here that I have seen disagrees with that point. They tell you people in general have uglies, and you call that diversion.

      lol is that tribalism as well? See how silly that sounds?! Is that the ‘team men’ response? Come one now! From what I have read here alot of us have been expressing sins of ‘humans’, and you rush to judgment telling us we remind everyone that men are bad or worse. That wasn’t said. Could you be to emotionally invested at this point?

      Part of the guy-like-steel-trap thinking is to stay on subject, and grasp points that are given without adding to it. You can do that part of the time it seems, but failed in other portions. Your male logic knows what I’m talking about, and I’m sure you won’t get defensive with me pointing it out.

      I like to take people at face value. I don’t walk into a room with a group of men, and think to myself, ‘OH! A group of men that think most women are man hating feminists!” Then get on my defensive high horse. That is such a waste of brain space! I have quite a few good men in my life, and have had throughout my life. I have also had men and women that have deliberately hurt me as well. I think most people can say that no?

      Its such a waste of energy to view life as one gender is worse than the other. I wouldn’t wish to spend time with a man that thinks he needs to train me like a dog, nor would I wish to spend time with a women with the same mindset toward men.

      Those mindsets are basement people. If one wishes to have a dreary, hateful, unenlightened existence they are in good company in the basement. Basement people can’t think of a good thing to say about anyone. We have all run into this sort. You spend to much time with them? Your attitude will slowly turn negative as well. They aren’t worth my energy.

      I wouldn’t want to go to the extreme either, and be all happy about everything. You can’t discern things that happen in life when you are one extreme or the other. Balance can’t happen that way, and as you realize that is logical.

      Men and women are both guilty of having unrealistic expectations. Life has way of maturing some people, and then of course you have some that refuse to mature. To me is more the subject of maturity than gender.

      They normally are the ones that like to think of themselves as ‘always’ victims. Goodness knows I have seen enough women with that mindset, and YES there are men as well.

      Forever blaming anyone and everything for their woes, and never can step up to take ANY personal responsibility. Those types have been around since time began, and all you can do is try not to spend to much time with them. They can drain you. I do pray for them. They can remove that yoke, and that burden if they choose. Contempt takes way to much energy from people.

      What seems to be missing from your point? Women aren’t just spending all their time with other women. If they are sleeping around? They aren’t all gay. SURE there are sluts that sleep around with horn dogs (male slut). Notice the male portion there?

      Insecure people tend to want to control EVERYTHING in life! Yes, that means the people around them as well. They tend to be characterized as bullies. If one can attempt to use common sense? We can’t say only ONE gender does that MOST of the time. That’s completely silly. Why the need for competition anyway? Men and women have their own ways of doing this.

      Jezebel is known for the perverted sex – not the healthy type – and trying to control what Gods are to be worshiped. There is more to the label than just slut as you put it.

      The lady that drown her children? She is just as sick as the men that beat and raped those girls. The need for the competition on WHAT act was worse? Its fruitless. Mara pointed out the article to show a point, and you blew her off and showed an article about some sick woman. Logic acknowledges the point, and then continues. Showing examples of certain men that have acted out their misogyny doesn’t equal ALL men are like that!

      Why are you responding in that fashion? You are getting defensive over something that wasn’t said. Showing evil people doesn’t equal all within their gender are evil. You are taking it as a personal slam, and it had nothing to do with you all.

      Radical feminism doesn’t represent most women, and those that try to repeat enough doesn’t change the truth. Are their whack job women out there? I can say YES! I’m totally comfortable with saying it. They don’t represent me. Listing the sins of the whack job still doesn’t represent me. Pointing out men that have same type of contempt for women? You should be able to acknowledge them comfortably as well. Why is it so hard for you to do that? I mean dirt bags don’t represent all men!

      Contempt isn’t healthy or fruitful for anyone. No gender required.

  28. jfr says:

    I am a woman and I have read Mark’s blog, met him, have spoken with often, and guess what? He likes me.

    • TL says:

      That is really nice for you jfr, but that does not change the fact that he has some very bad attitudes toward women in general according to the things he has said and written online.

    • I wouldn’t trust the dude one iota. He seems to adapt to whatever social situation he is in, but never shows who he really is. Look at the post he wrote about the man author who writes about man issues. He seems nice to the guy, but then speaks vehemently against women. He just uses who ever is convenient for him to use at the moment.

  29. novaseeker says:

    I’m not a supporter of porn, mostly because I think it isn’t good for male sexual function if they are in relationships.

    However, one of the main reasons why porn has exploded in use so much in the last 15 years has been the reality that many guys face of being shut out of the sexual marketplace. That’s a life reality for a lot of men today, due to the way that the hookup culture works (favors a small segment of men and leaves most pretty dry sexually), coupled with later marrying ages, higher divorce rates, the decline of marital sexuality for various reasons and so on. It’s unfortunate that so many men use porn due to the impact it can have on them, but it’s also quite understandable that they do. The sexual revolution has been a disaster for most men other than the most desirable ones, and porn has been kind of the “sop” that has been thrown to the male masses, in sexual terms.

    Frankly I don’t foresee the use of porn declining in the years to come. It’s become mainstream now, and, interestingly, the percentage of women who view porn is rising dramatically among younger women now, too, as it has become mainstream.

  30. jack says:

    There seems to be some comprehension problems here. I posted the article about the woman to illustrate the point that anyone can play tit-for-tat with internet links, and that it was a waste of time to do so. By linking to an irrelevant article, I was illustrating that no good is served by pointing out extremes.

    Second, I already pointed out that many men are terrible, so that means I am not defensive. I don’t get mad when you always have to add the “but men do that also” argument. I am irritated that you are wasting valuable time by bringing up a point no one disputes, because you are being defensive,. You actually proved my point in your last post (in the most satisfactory way possible) by bringing up the “men do that too” argument. See? You can’t help yourself – it’s habit now. Accusing me of being defensive is projection on your part – you assume that I think like you do.

    You can bash men all you like – I don’t care. Hell – bash me – I don’t care. What proves your defensiveness is that you cannot discuss a single fault of women without bringing up men. I can discuss mens’ faults without bringing up women. Therefore, you are defensive, and I am not.

    So now I will answer your question about why I am continuously bringing up the faults of women:

    Because women are defensive and don’t like it! Seriously, though, in our current society, when you bring up the faults of men, everyone agrees. When you point out the faults of women, society in general issues a litany of justifications (rationalizations) of why women act badly. Feminism can take credit for most of this.

    Example:
    When a man sleeps around in college, he is a player, breaking the hearts of the poor, innocent girls.

    When a woman sleeps around in college, she is either “empowered sexually”, or if you are a religious conservative, she is a heartbroken victim of a bad man, who only wanted to be loved.

    Neither group will call her out on being. a. slut.

    I will though :) because someone needs to. Women are so accustomed to having their sin explained rationalized away that when someone like me starts pointing it out, they go bananas.

    Now, while I said I understand MarkyMark, and I understand why he feels the way he does, I only agree about 20% with him. I applaud your Christian conduct and desire to further Christ’s kingdom. I am sure I would agree with you more than I would with him.

    Now for the bad part: I think that the topic is so highly charged to you that you are not able to discuss it without inadvertently imputing all kinds of thoughts and motives onto others. Your approach to debate is organized in a way that it is more likely to add confusion to the discussion that to add clarity. I think you are too invested in your viewpoint on the topic to even realize when someone is agreeing with you – you are fighting everything.

    I have debated this type of person before and it never bears fruit – here is an example of what this feels like to me:

    Me: “I hear that Jenny is taking a trip to Italy.”
    You” “Well, men take vacations to Italy too!”

    It is exhausting and pointless to debate someone who does not wish to understand the views of the other person.

    While I am grateful for every person who desires to serve Christ, I can’t participate in a debate where someone is not putting much energy into listening and comprehension.

    Best wishes

    • I started the “debate” because 100% of Marky Mark ” thoughts” about women, take the women and put them at total fault for all the evils of this world. I stated several times that I agreed with you on the points that you brought up. It seems to be you are ignoring those things that I did agree with you on, and keep turning it on me and saying that I am unwilling to discuss the fact that women have faults.

      God did not call us to fight a war on culture, but to spread the gospel. While I don’t believe it is wrong to go against the tide of the culture and speak out against it when it is needed…I also don’t believe we are ever going to win it. What we can do is minister to individuals who need the Grace of God on their lives. God will fight the war on culture when he comes back to reign.

      My husband posted a comment on Marky’s Blog. The one about my comment on the money or something like that. Go see what my husband has to say about me being a feminist.

      Then see Marky’s reply back to him.

      Not only does Marky Hate all women, he also hates men that don’t think exactly like he does about women.


      “I think you are too invested in your viewpoint on the topic to even realize when someone is agreeing with you – you are fighting everything.”

      I could say the same of you Jack. You are very invested in your view point, that you don’t even get that I agree with you.

      I have no problem whatsoever with admitting that women have major issues. None whatsoever. I have seen crazy wacko women. But I am not stupid enough to think that the the culture today is the total fault of the woman.

      In answer to the previous post you made. I disagree that TODAY the majority of the women are at fault with the culture. I believe men are too. You are viewing the culture only form the westernized viewpoint. The rest of the World, the culture is horrible as well, and there is no feminism taking place. Africa has more sexually transmitted diseases than America and they are not a feminist society.

      If you read the Bible you will see that the cultures throughout history, men and women were both the problem of the society. Time before the flood, the Tower of Babel, Egypt, Israel, Rome, Greece, Europe. Nothing has even been utopia since the fall of man. And it won’t be until Jesus comes back. It is fruitless to fight culture wars. But it isn’t fruitless to point people to Jesus.

      Women will stop being sluts when they have a relationship with Jesus. Men will stop relying on porn when they have a relationship with Jesus. Will the fall and sin again in temptation? Of course. But they won’t desire it to be part of their character. They will be ashamed of it.

      And I am sorry, but Marky Mark doesn’t seem to grieved over using explicit language.

      Again, I am not heartless to his pain. My brother went through it. My brother still feels the bitterness of a woman doing him wrong. I don’t sympathize with women that are cruel and heartless. But I don’t believe all women are sluts. And I won’t call them one unless I know that it is a fact. And even then, instead of me calling them a slut to their face, I will share the gospel with them, and let God’s law convict them that they are sluts, and then share with them how Jesus paid for their sin.

    • TL says:

      Jack,

      “While I am grateful for every person who desires to serve Christ, I can’t participate in a debate where someone is not putting much energy into listening and comprehension.”

      Not being a regular poster here, but primarily observing, I don’t think this was supposed to be a debate. And I don’t see that you’ve been putting much energy into listening or comprehension of what others have been saying. If I were to describe your participation with one word, I’d say “argumentative”.

      • You can bash men all you like – I don’t care. Hell – bash me – I don’t care. What proves your defensiveness is that you cannot discuss a single fault of women without bringing up men. I can discuss mens’ faults without bringing up women. Therefore, you are defensive, and I am not.

        ———————

        That makes no sense at all.

        Where did you ‘discuss’ men’s faults again? You know the ones that are ‘owned’ all by themselves, without any prompting from women?

        Stating that both men and women have faults – same, similar, etc and not pointing out just ‘sins’ that belong to women alone is getting defensive? Seriously?

        How about placing the truth on the table, and you want us just to point out sins of women to bash on to make you feel better. We aren’t bashing men, but speaking of the sins of the human race. The comprehension problem seems to be with you Sir. You can’t seem to grasp what ‘difference of opinion’ is. I don’t need to get some ‘high’ off of telling the world what is wrong with men. Its completely fruitless.

        Debates on how we view things that are different compared to your life view doesn’t always make people defensive. It seems to make you defensive.
        ———————
        When a man sleeps around in college, he is a player, breaking the hearts of the poor, innocent girls.

        When a woman sleeps around in college, she is either “empowered sexually”, or if you are a religious conservative, she is a heartbroken victim of a bad man, who only wanted to be loved.

        Neither group will call her out on being. a. slut.

        ——————————

        That’s called a generalization from your point of view.

        If the man is playing the field, and breaking hearts? He is a horn dog, and seems to have a very immature view of life.

        In your own example you mentioned the women only sleeps with one man. lol hardly needing the ‘slut’ label. To me slut is playing the field as well. She isn’t ‘sexually empowered’ if she is sleeping around with numerous men. She is immature as well.

        If we want to stick to generalizations? How about we admit that the ‘boys’ in most cases will be telling that horndog to get it while he can! Encourage him in other words.

        What you seem not to realize is the slut doesn’t get that kind of encouragement from most women. Notice I said ‘most women’, and not all. I suppose I’m wrong and defensive, because I’m not concentrating on just the slut’s friends right? That is what you want it seems. What is wrong with pointing out both? That’s life!

        I suppose that is ‘defensive’ because I have a different point of view right?

        ————————

        It is exhausting and pointless to debate someone who does not wish to understand the views of the other person.

        While I am grateful for every person who desires to serve Christ, I can’t participate in a debate where someone is not putting much energy into listening and comprehension.

        ———————-

        So true! Signing off now – since I’m sure I’m WRONG and defensive just because I don’t agree. It is fruitless when someone doesn’t wish to ‘acknowledge’ differences of opinion – than claim its just a ‘comprehension’ problem.

        I don’t need to defend something that clearly wasn’t present.

  31. jfr says:

    Am I correct to assume you were new to Mark’s blog the day you wrote your initial comment?

    • No, I had seen it about two week previously, and he wrote more and more crap, and more disgusting language about women. There is no excuse to use the type of language he does without any apology. He is proud to spew out that vomit. And for that alone, I don’t respect him nor his point of view.
      The man, Jack who has been actually conversing, has had more dignity and more character.

    • JFR, this is WHY I don’t respect Marky, his view point or his blog. Look at the type of people he attracts:


      Anonymous said…

      Anon @21.28 and the rest of you: It’s obvious that DJ is just a wacko and has no husband and this stuff is being written by her. She sounds like someone with schzophrenic who is fugly looking and lives in some backward area in a trailer with her raggedy kids. No man will go near her or give her the time of day so she’s bitter. Instead of just accepting her fate she becomes a “Christian”. Now she can claim that being a Christian is the reason she can only have sex if she married. It’s not because she’s crazy, poor and fugly looking with a bunch of kids that no man wants her but because she’s now a follower of Jesus lol
      I’m almost never wrong in my analysis of this neurotic type of female. She has sex on the brain because she knows she can’t get it and is frustrated. This is why she accuses Marky of being a porn addict. It all ties into HER obsession with the sex she can’t get. The first low class thug that comes along and says Hi to her and it’s bye bye Jesus lol


      I don’t know weather to laugh so hard, or be grieved with such nonsense.

      Marky Mark admitted to looking at porn. I asked him how often and he refuses to answer my question. He asked me VERY personal questions BEFORE I even thought to ask that infamous porn question.
      He’s almost never wrong in his analysis? Um how about DEAD wrong to all the above. Whereas Marky did addmit to using porn. Here is how it went down on his blog:
      ME:

      In fact, the men that speak the loudest against women, usually have a sex perversion.

      If you tell me you don’t, and that you have NEVER looked at pornography or that you haven’t since you were a teenager when someone tempted you with it….I will listen a bit closer to your arguments.

      My husband has never looked at it since our marriage of nine years. He did when he was a teen when he was at someone’s house. But he never did it again. Do you have that type of character?

      I never slept with a man, except for the one I said I do to. Never even kissed one, or touched one with inappropriete touch.

      I have grounds to make my argument, do you against mine about the porn?

      Marky:

      Anyone who looks at porn (other than by accident, because of hitting a corrupted link, for example) is an idiot/ Yes, I’ve looked at porn, but I NEVER did it on the job-never! That’s just stupid. Even if I looked at conservative websites, I’d look at some liberal ones too, just to confound anyone who was tracking my web surfing habits at work.

      So he is more higher in his morals because he hasn’t looked it at work? This statement makes me highly suspicious that he uses porn more than seeing it in places by accident. I did not write my post without the evidence. And I never did say in my post that he was a porn addict. But when I write my position as a woman, no one believes me? How come? How come I get grilled for believing Marky has a porn problem when he says he hasn’t looked at it at work, but has in other places?

      This statement was finally written him, because he asked me how did I know my husband did not use porn. Apparently he had a very hard time believing that. Why?

      My husband is in computers at work. His laptop that is provided by work is his main computer. When he is at home, that’s the computer he uses. He goes to work and comes home. For fun, he likes to get together with men at church and go target practice. So in other words, he is either at work, home, or church. If he is sneaking porn somewhere by himself, it would have to be at work. Which according to Marky’s own words, would be stupid of him to do.

      Also, I haven’t seen any magazines in this house, and I clean it often. It’s hard to believe but there are truly high upstanding men that don’t act like animals and I am married to one.

      And the man above that reads Marky’s blog? He doesn’t believe me, so he has to write lies about me, even though I never made a statement anywhere that would give a clue to the above “facts” he wrote about me.

      Why can Marky’s men make false statements about me, but I supposedly make false statements about Marky when he has in fact admitted to using porn? And then he tells me to “get bent” when I ask him how often, so he can say he isn’t an addict. Then he shames me by saying how can a “lady” ask such personal questions.

      What he accuses me of, he does himself, and it is ok for him to do?

      We are pretty high class people too. We don’t rely on the government, we don’t have scads of kids, and I am a stay at home mom with a husband that works hard to provide for me.
      Marky probably thinks the above comment is genius, which shows how stupid he is. He might be right that the majority of the culture treats men wrong, but I don’t buy his “thoughts” and respect his view when he acts like a moron about it.

      And you, if you are indeed a woman, I dare would not trust him. He may of been nice to your face, but then he goes behind your back and talks about what whore you are.

  32. Mara says:

    Darn, I was really hoping to talk to someone who actually listened to what I said.
    Jack obviously doesn’t.

    I wanted to continue on down the road about misandry and misogyny, how they exist in the world and how neither one has any business existing in the church.

    But all Jack can say is, “misandry is bad, misandry is bad.”
    I agree. But so is misogyny. And it’s misogyny that has infiltrated the church more solidly than misandry.

    I was also going to ask Jack, if he’d have conversed with me instead of deflecting and accusing, “Which came first, misandry or misogyny?”

    I really wanted to see the answer to his question. Not because I wanted to get into a contest with anybody over who is worse, men or women, misandry or misogyny. But because I wanted to point out something that is so often missed in this discussion.
    But alas, Jack can’t even hear me without getting all defensive and dancing around the ring like a lightweight boxer who suddenly found himself in a medium weight ring.
    I know I can’t pin him down to an answer. But neither is his answer all that important.

    So I’m going to ask others here, “Which came first? Misandry or misogyny?”
    Not which is worse, not which is most prevalent or physically dangerous. Just, which came first?

    • novaseeker says:

      Neither.

      Men and women have doubtless had severe grievances with each other since the dawn of time. It’s probably true that these long-running grievances are the basis for what many people consider today to be “misogyny” and “misandry”.

      I can imagine that your idea is that men have been misogynistic forever about women and therefore women have only reacted to that recently by being misandrist. I don’t think that’s the case. I fully expect that the misandrist views that many women seem to have are not that different from the views they shared with other women millenia ago about men. The difference is in how misogyny and misandry played themselves out, because until fairly recently men had more objective power in society than women did. That has changed, and this has simply given voice to what is likely a very long-standing and deeply-seated misandry inside many women when considering men.

      Misandry and misogyny play themselves out differently as well. Men have physical power and that tends to be where misogyny can play itself out. Women have other power — today, legislative power by being a majority of the electorate, power by being favored by family law, power by having feminist ideas dominate the academy and the media — which is deployed routinely today in misandrist ways against men. I noticed you wrote above about “bruised egos” being incomparable to what women suffer due to misogyny. I don’t think that the millions of men who are basically getting rooked by a female-tilted family law system, which is supported full-on by feminism, are merely suffering from bruised egos, and neither are their children. And even in the realm of physical violence, there are always cases like Lorena Bobbitt (and I remember all the fist-pumping and smiling I saw among women colleagues when that was going down … misandry in full colors and openly expressed with no social penalty whatsoever) or Mary Winkler, or the fact that actual statistics on IPV indicate that women commit IPV as much as men do (although it must be admitted, again, that men are stronger than women and can harm women more easily than vice versa unless weapons are involved, as in the cases of Bobbitt, Winkler or Elin Nordegren, another physically violent wife who received nary a critique for being so from women, and in fact received quite a bit of approval).

      The reality is that men and women, in their fallen state, are competitors with each other. That gives rise to misandry and misogyny alike. Given the differences between men and women, it is to be expected both that these are generally expressed differently and that historically one had more ability to be expressed than the other. But the kinds of grievances that women typically raise against men, and the kinds of “women are better” type of attitudes that are nearly constantly expressed by women, are undoubtedly nothing new at all, and are simply deep-seated resentments of the female sex towards the sex that is bigger and more powerful, just as the misogynistic sentiments of men are simply the deep-seated resentments of the male sex towards the female sex for his dependence upon it for sex and procreation. The problem is that men and women both need each other (and yes, despite what Jennifer Aniston says, it won’t be true until everything built around her and every device she uses and so on is both invented by and manufactured by women that she can say with any kind of credibility that she doesn’t need men) and yet our interests are not aligned, and we have unequal power in different areas of life — all of that leads to resentment, and that resentment will eventually be expressed. The root cause of this is sin, of course, but in the fallen state such is how we are.

      • Novaseeker, so am I right to believe you believe that men and women are both at fault for the evil in the country and in the world. That you are equally blaming both sexes?

        That was the point of my post. Markymark blames women to be the total problem in this country. He won’t take responsibility for his own sins and then he even blames his own sins on the fault of the woman.

        Yes, porngraphy is being used by more women. But I don’t use it. I don’t know of many other women that personally does. Does that make all women users of porn? No.

        And I don’t believe all men are users of porn, although with the vast majority of men, that seems to be their collective vice. Although I have learned since I have been saved, to look at the individual, rather than the whole. Yes, sometimes individuals do meet the general population’s slant towards sin. But it still isn’t fair to assume, every person that one meets fits the sterotypes and treat them as such when they don’t know them.

        Women have other vices for sure. But it isn’t woman’s total fault for the degradation of society.

        There is nothing new under the sun. This “recent” gender war has been played out since the Garden of Eden. It won’t stop until Jesus Returns, or the individual seeks the Lord and becomes His own child and submits to his doctrine on how to treat others.

      • Mara says:

        Novaseeker,
        Awesome response, really.
        I was hoping for something from jack talking about the hit men are taking in the court systems, but he couldn’t get past his own misreading of my comments.

        You are right. Physcial wounds are bad. Death is awful.
        But hits to the heart, in Family Court, are also devastating and can be as devastating as death.

        I know men are suffering there, but women are too,
        Abusers are abusers, no matter what gender.
        Abusers, male and female, are both guilty of using the court system against those they abuse.

        And you are right sin is sin.
        I expecially love you last paragraph.
        Your post gives me hope, and it may change the way I look at what I was going to say, about which came first misandry or misogyny.
        But whatever my opinion on which came first, what I know is that both need to stop within the church.
        Through Jesus Christ, the dividing wall and competition needs to stop.

      • TL says:

        Abuse happens because of a power paradigm. Whoever has the most power has an opportunity to abuse someone with less power. What kind of power doesn’t matter. It can be having something someone else wants, like sex, popularity, recognition, etc.. It most often is physical power, social power, monetary power or political power. The world does not have a problem acknowledging that men have most of the worlds power socially, monetarily, politically and within male-female relationships. Most religions world wide give men authority clout in marital and family issues.

        So truthfully, the world doesn’t have a problem acknowledging that men are the primary abusers and women are the primary recipients of that abuse. Their only problem is explaining why women are deserving of such treatment. It seems mainly patriarchal/hierarchal minded Christians try to deny it exists, and/or say that women’s lack of compliance causes it.

        Misogynists of every kind whether Christian or nonChristian are the loudest proponents of how evil women are and how they should be submissive, compliant, obedient and sexually available to men upon their demand. Psychologists know this is the talk of abusers. Do women do that? Perhaps, some. Perhaps, if women had 90% of the power paradigms in the world they might be the primary abusers. It is the wrongful use of too much power that corrupts IMO.

    • TL says:

      “So I’m going to ask others here, “Which came first? Misandry or misogyny?” Not which is worse, not which is most prevalent or physically dangerous. Just, which came first?”

      That seems an easy question at first blush. When Adam blamed Eve for his choice to disobey God, he was guilty of demeaning the woman, which is misogyny. And misogynist men have used Adam’s response ever since.

      • Mara says:

        TL,
        You have a good response too.
        But Adam’s response could be just as much or more of a ‘survival’ tactic than actual misogyny.

        I’ll have to consider what you’ve said, along with what novaseeker said, concerning what I brought up.
        If indeed misandry and misogyny started with God confronting Adam and Eve or if it started another place I was thinking of.

        You see, this is what I want in a discussion, to be challenged with real ideas, not to just be scolded by someone who is not interested in or even able to understand what I’m trying to say.

  33. jfr says:

    I am indeed a woman, albeit much different from you.

    Mark’s blog is a blog written by a man for men. His target audience is men. He is not going to preface every negative comment about women with; to the women this applies.

    You read a few of Mark’s post and took it upon yourself to leave a comment accusing him of hating women and not being a real man. Nice. What kind of response did you think you were going to get? What did you think you were going to accomplish? Did you actually think you were going to set Mark and his readers straight? FYI, Mark does not think exactly like all his commenter’s.

    Your criticize Mark for using the F word. That is just lame. When he said, “get bent” I doubt he knew its current meaning.

    Jesus wants us to love each other but he also believed in justice. He confronted the Pharisees, etc. with not so nice words.

    My guess is that you are too immature or emotionally insecure to remove yourself from a discussion about women and discuss the issue objectively.

    You said that you felt ashamed to be created a woman and was tempted to reconsider your position on men after reading the comments on Mark’s blog. You also said something about second-guessing all unknown men now. How can someone else’s opinion change who you are so easily? You are emotionally porous and very easily influenced. You did not respond to Mark, you expressed a critical knee-jerking reaction to a reality that is not your own.

    The men on Mark’s blog do not want your sympathy but if that was your response, I could respect you as a Christian.

    • Mara says:

      J2J,
      I assume you just let this post through to, again, show us the caliber of people who frequent places like Markymarks?

      Pretty low caliber indeed.

      Oh, btw, J2J. This Mark Driscoll I’ve been telling you about is also known as the cussing pastor. He also drops the f-bomb in his preaching. And because of his influence, young, impressionable men now think it’s all hip to cuss like Mark Driscoll.
      Just a side note. Nothing important really. Just letting you know where some of this is coming from.

    • JFR,
      Sorry you think I am immature and emotionally insecure. I am human being, and I react to things initionally in reading them. Human beings do feel sometimes. It took a day of me praying and asking the Lord to help me see this straight. I don’t change my mind so easily. I don’t second guess all men now just because of Marky, because the Lord assured me that all men aren’t like Marky. My faith is in the Lord, not in what man says or does. Sometimes my intial knee jerk, reaction goes into gear, but the Lord brings me back to the truth. So no, I did not change.

      No, I didn’t believe I was going to set them straight. But Marky isn’t going to set me straight either. I only posted this to show people that are seeking answers to a certain doctrine in Christianity that I do not believe is found in the bible. It is the Bible twisted. I am letting the words on both sides speak for themsleves and hopefully someone will awake out of the brainwashed cycle I used to be in.

      Do you think you are going to set me straight by commenting on this? Why are you commenting anyway?

      Yes, I find offended of mark using the F word as a Christian. The Bible does speak about putting all evil speaking and foolish jesting far away from us. You doubt he knew the currect meaning of “get bent”? Please! He uses a lot of words that I had no idea exsisted and uses them frequently. I have a hard time believing he didn’t know what “get bent” meant. My husband has never heard the term, and I had to explain it to him. Marky was proud that he told me off with that expression.

      Jesus does believe in Justice true. But that Jusitce is not the same as Marky’s Justice or your view point. And yes, he confronted the Pharisees which I believe is the attitude of Marky Mark’s toward’s women. Remember it was the Pharisees that wanted to stone the adulturous woman. I am sure Marky Mark feels like throwing a rock or two at women. And as far as Jesus using not so nice words. Give me a break. Jesus used strong language that had vocabulary. Marky uses slang because that’s all that is in his mind towards women. I don’t recall Jesus calling the Pharisees Manginas, or telling them to get bent, or get laid, or to f*ck off, or anything of that nature. I remember him calling them a generation of vipers.

      And it is ironic, that Jesus called them Vipers because when out of their mouths came evil things? And the reason evil things came out of their mouth is because their heart was evil? And perhapes he called them vipers, because they used biting words on people? Which brings me back to orginal comment I had made, and the Orginal line of thought that I had used, and the original verse:


      Matthew 12:34
      O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

      Look, we aren’t going to agree about the JFR. I am glad you can respect me as a Christian. But I honestly don’t answer to men or women of weather or not I am a Christian. Marky can make all the claims he wants about me not being one, because he thinks a I am feminist. It doesn’t matter. I know whom I have believed. I do not believe Marky.

      I think it would be the better intrest in all of us, if you stop sticking up for Marky on this blog. If you like him, and respect him fine. That’s your choice.

  34. novaseeker says:

    There is nothing new under the sun. This “recent” gender war has been played out since the Garden of Eden. It won’t stop until Jesus Returns, or the individual seeks the Lord and becomes His own child and submits to his doctrine on how to treat others.

    This I agree with. I do think it takes two to tango, as they say, and each sex has its preferred vices.

    I think that it doesn’t help anyone to paint an entire sex as evil or debauched. Feminism did (and still does) this with men, and often pastors do, too, sadly. Quite a few men now are responding with the same in kind. Neither is helpful really. Both men and women need more empathy for each other, but the current culture is doing it’s best to place us at each other’s throats. That’s surely demonic. It’s hard to fight against it, but we must, I think, in our personal lives.

    both need to stop within the church.
    Through Jesus Christ, the dividing wall and competition needs to stop.

    Indeed. Otherwise, we surely accomplish nothing but becoming the left and right hands of the Evil One.

    It is the wrongful use of too much power that corrupts IMO.

    Women have quite a bit of power right now in the West, and are frankly outpacing men in power on virtually every metric other than average pay (which federal studies have shown is mostly attributable to different career and work hour choices between men and women). It’s fine to say that women in Bangladesh are oppressed by men, but that shouldn’t be a basis on which to deal with men in the United States.

    • I am completely fine with men believing that feminism has squelched their manhood person. I am not fine with men saying that all of women are scum bags…which is why I was writing about Marky’s blog in particular.

      And there are sects within American and Western Culture that do oppress women.

    • TL says:

      Novaseeker,

      ”I think that it doesn’t help anyone to paint an entire sex as evil or debauched.”

      Quite true. But it isn’t women doing this to men, it has usually been men doing this to women. And it’s been done throughout history. In the NT era, women were viewed as weak, inferior to men in most things, more prone to being deceived, less able to discern truth, and basically only good for sex, bearing and raising children.

      Every culture has done it’s best to set men and women against each other. It is the influence of the systems of this world. Unfortunately, the church generally has not sought to correct this but has embraced this worldly attitude. God’s truths have always prevailed to fight this, but it’s always been an uphill battle much like the battle against slavery.

      In the West women on a larger scale than ever before have more freedoms then they used to. But we are still oppressed in some areas that are important.

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